who recently got a heating oil bill?

Submitted by lottabigbluewater t3_10p3oxf in vermont

Cause this shit is SCARY. I make a higher than average salary and I'm struggling to pay bills this winter. And it hasn't even been cold yet!!!

I am considering using portable electric heaters for the next month and see how that works out $-wise, is anyone already doing that?

I have, of course, sealed all doors, windows, have thermal curtains, and even blankets over the upstairs windows. I keep the house at 57* when I'm home (lower when I'm at work) and wear outdoor clothes indoors. I burn wood in the evening but am not home during the day to keep the stove going and I don't have a pellet stove.

Any long term planning I can do to move away from oil? No natural gas in my town, as in most of Vermont.

Edit: PS: consider this a fair warning if you plan to move to Vermont and make less than 80k a year...

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LitherLily t1_j6ijply wrote

Just want to point out I broke the glass window on our woodstove last month (like an absolute idiot) and we set up portable space heaters for four days waiting for the replacement part.

Four days of using space heaters (sparingly!) tripled our electric bill. I do not recommend.

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Definitelynotcal1gul t1_j6j17gz wrote

My friend had a furnace problem for three days and had to use a space heater in his office (he is WFH).

Dude tells me his electric bill doubled last month! Watch out running those space heaters all day.

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LitherLily t1_j6j1qzl wrote

Yup, they are effective and not economical at all.

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lottabigbluewater OP t1_j6ika4g wrote

Omg

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Kitchen_Nail_6779 t1_j6muf5y wrote

In my experience, the envi wall heater from e-heat work pretty well and aren't that expensive to run. They are fairly expensive to buy though.

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AdventureSheepies t1_j6i78lb wrote

Yeah. My bill is somewhere around $1300. A couple years ago, it took maybe $600 to fill my tank. We’re running low, and there is a freeze coming, so it looks like we’re going to be topping up with diesel for a couple weeks.

The stupid thing is I finally got a raise where I’m making what should be enough to cover my expenses, but every fucking thing else just got more expensive too, so I am actually worse off than I was a year or two ago.

Also, fwiw I keep my thermostat at 60, we all take short showers, and run the wash on cold. Just about anything we can do to stretch things out.

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DrNism0 t1_j6jsj8l wrote

Same, friend. A "merit increase" of 2% doesnt cut it when every cost in life has doubled. :/

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headgasketidiot t1_j6ij820 wrote

Have you considered upgrading to a modern wood stove? I have an Alderlea T6, and it is an absolute beast of a heater and the single most important item for my quality of life. My house is a 3000 sqft 200 year old farmhouse. I refill the stove 2-3 times a day unless it's very, very cold. There's never any smoke, and even though I do 90+% of my heating with wood, I only go through 4 cord in a winter. Modern wood stoves are incredibly efficient!

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lottabigbluewater OP t1_j6ijnpu wrote

Actually I hadn't considered that! My stove is from the 80s and burns out in 4-5 hours if I don't tend to it, for example if I'm at work. If I want it to heat the house up well I have to fill it every hour it seems. Great comment, I'll look into this.

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headgasketidiot t1_j6il1r9 wrote

I meant what I said without exaggerating - my wood stove changed my life. Before my T6, I had a VC Vigilant from the 80s, and it was a lot worse. I went through 4 cords in the winter, and I still relied heavily on the backup hydronic system. With a fresh load, the T6 puts out enough BTU to heat the entire house for at least 6 hours on all but the coldest days, and there are still coals 24+ hours after loading it. It's currently 11:20, and there are still flames from when I loaded it this morning around 7; the upstairs room farthest from the stove, which is downstairs in the living room, is a comfortable 67 degrees.

If you have questions, check out /r/woodstoving. One of the mods there, /u/deepwoodsdanger, is a Vermonter, and it's worth subbing just to see the gorgeous stoves they restore.

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DeepWoodsDanger t1_j6j7kyi wrote

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goldenlight18 t1_j6j1iw3 wrote

Highly recommend the Hearthstone Green Mountain Series! We have a 60 and it heats our 1500sf home pretty well. (plus its a Morrisville based company!)

The catalyst makes the logs last longer & get more heat out of the wood. There is currently a federal 22% tax credit for installing an efficient woodstove which helps cut down on the upfront cost & VT Efficiency has a $400 rebate for replacing an old stove with an energy efficient one.

Do you belong to one of the Credit Unions around? VSECU has VHeat where you lock in how many gallons of oil you'll buy over the winter & it locks your price per gallon- which is lower than the market rate.

Would also recommend looking at what your insulation situation is like- VT Efficiency has some work on that as well.

For example- we were getting oil fill ups once a month last year (eek!), saw the way the oil prices were going and decided to bite the bullet and get a woodstove. We've only needed one oil fill up so far since last May & still have a 1/4 of a tank. The caveat is that we both work from home. But we do our last load of wood around 10 pm and oil kicks on around 5 am- which is almost a full work day. Plenty of hot coals left to restart the fire around 7 am.

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Vtfla t1_j6ipgt0 wrote

The problem with a wood stove is it requires a lot of work to get your heat. Even if you buy your wood, it needs to be stacked (somewhere outside), dragged into the house, and loaded in the stove. If you source it yourself, add craptonnes more. Then, stove needs to be shoveled out daily and pipes disassembled and cleaned monthly. Say nothing of the poking and prodding during the day.

That’s fine for a youngster, or even middle aged, but we old folks can’t handle that kind of work anymore. When we bought our house, it had a beast of a wood stove. I was really excited to be burning wood again. With no land, the cost these days is ridiculous, our beloved porch became a wood crib and every time I loaded up my arms with wood, I bruised myself for days. The corners and weight of the wood is not kind to aged flesh.

We gave up and switched to a pellet stove. Still more work than adjusting a thermostat but doable for the old fogies.

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zarnov t1_j6iwa7a wrote

A little exaggerated. I have my stovepipe professionally cleaned every other year and burn DRY wood. Shovel ashes weekly. Stove runs in morning for a few hours and evenings + most of the night. Yeah stacking and hauling is a little PITA, but if you break both jobs up, it’s doable. Heck of an inexpensive way to heat a house.

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Vtfla t1_j6izapj wrote

Last time I noticed, dry wood was running around $300 a cord. Our beast used 6 cord before we sent it down the road. That’s not exactly cheap. Pellets run about the same for way less work, and gramma doesn’t have to chase spiders all over the parlor. 😉

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dmcginvt t1_j6kcke0 wrote

Well I just paid 1500 for 250 gallons of oil which is the second full this winter

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SchmeddyBallz t1_j6kb91p wrote

If you don't enjoy working with wood to heat your house it's probably a bad move. My dad is 70 and I grew up splitting with him to heat our house. He still splits everything by hand and loves stacking it after.

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Unique-Public-8594 t1_j6i426r wrote

Because our oil furnace broke last May, We put in a heat pump in November. Bosch with auxiliary heating coils to help when temperatures are very low. Financed. Because it is a historically significant home, we used mostly existing ductwork (adding some floor vents) rather than mini splits. We are all electric with back-up whole house propane generator.

Approx 1400 sf. No zones. Home is Insulated but very leaky windows.

Heat pump including install, electric upgrade at pole, generator upgrade, cost $22k all in. Monthly payment roughly $300.

December electric bill was about $300. Expecting lower spring, summer and fall.

Would like to add solar. Just pacing our home improvements.

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Cease_Cows_ t1_j6i5gb2 wrote

Just as a counterpoint to this because we're currently experiencing it: Good luck getting your heat pump serviced if/when it breaks. My understanding is that, while new units are still being made, parts for repair are basically nonexistent. Our $20,000 heat pump system dramatically cut our heating costs for 2 years, and now has sat broken waiting on a new compressor for the last 2 years. I'm considering tearing out the head units because just looking at them makes me angry.

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Aperron t1_j6ioy3d wrote

This is a pretty common situation sadly.

The parts are model specific, and models refresh very frequently so the parts for a given model are only produced for a very short time.

Additionally heat pumps regardless of manufacturer aren’t really designed with repair in mind to begin with. A lot of mechanical techs consider them to basically be similar to a very expensive disposable window unit. Even if you do all the preventative maintenance (which is quite involved, better hope the indoor heads are placed so they can be fully disassembled yearly) they’re unlikely to make it to 15 years of service life. Many people see less than 5 before they’re beyond economical repair.

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Cease_Cows_ t1_j6ir8c1 wrote

yeah a lot of that jives with what I've discovered as well. It's crazy how the government is pushing these as a panacea when, at least at the moment they're giant money pits that don't seem like they'll possibly lead to enough savings to cover their installation costs.

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BoBab t1_j6ix2mc wrote

Yea this has all been very illuminating for me to read. The YT vids on heat pumps never talk about the longevity, reliability, or repairability.

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jj3449 t1_j6kvy2q wrote

The issue is when they try to push the envelope. Get a 12-13 seer unit and all is good but if you get one of these magic 23 seer units that will work in New England down to 10 degrees and every motor is variable speed this is what you end up with.

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Such-Evidence-4745 t1_j6ojwm6 wrote

A lot of high efficiency stuff seems like that. Looks good on paper but the more complex design seems to break more often and there don't seem to be any techs who know how they work. My parents had a high end boiler installed and it took them along time to find some one who could actually service it instead of just randomly swapping parts. And the thing had issues like 2 years after they got it. Who cares how efficient something is if its broken all the time?

Didn't know that heat pumps were the same deal though, sounds worse to be honest.

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WantDastardlyBack t1_j6jlj6p wrote

Some of this could tie into the issue that I have to write about constantly for an HVAC company down south. January 1st, the government upgraded to SEER2 ratings, so some older heat pumps and central and mini-split systems are no longer in compliance.

It's making HVAC technicians down there struggle to find parts that meet the new SEER2 ratings, and if they had any remaining stock that isn't in compliance with the new ratings, they can't install anything legally. I don't know how this plays out up here, but I know my client has been heavily focused on pointing out that it's going to be trickier to get some parts for older equipment.

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Aperron t1_j6js4kz wrote

Different issue.

Mini splits just generally aren’t designed to be overly serviceable from the start. Unlike a traditional central AC system where the components are usually fairly universal and can be mixed and matched, they’re generally proprietary and model specific with the model lines refreshing every year or two with little to no parts compatibility between refresh cycles.

Lots of small plastic parts and clips, delicate mechanisms with tight tolerances and electronics that fail with the slightest power surge or just from normal use due to being designed so tightly to spec for efficiency.

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lottabigbluewater OP t1_j6i4b3m wrote

May I ask about your square footage? $300/month for heating in December is much, much less than I paid in oil. Are you glad you took the leap to getting a heat pump? I'm sure your long term savings are going to be absolutely worth it, but I'm also sure that monthly payment hurts right now...

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Unique-Public-8594 t1_j6i4nh3 wrote

We are very glad (shocked at our relatively low electric bill) but next week’s temperatures will be the true test and that cost won’t show up in billing til next month.

Added sf as edit. 1400sf mostly open. 2 bedrooms but neither has a door, one bedroom is tiny so door would get in the way, other bedroom is more of an open loft to stairway, low no-dormered upstairs peaked ceiling. Huge, antique windows on south facing side: very leaky but lots of passive solar though. We need to get Button-up Vermont in here but have delayed due to covid.

So… $300/mo loan, plus $300 electric heat/appliances/lighting.

Feeling positive about getting off fossil fuel and onto electric since Vermont doesn’t use fossil fuel for their electric grid. Thank you, Vermont.

We had an old antique pot-belly wood stove but it was creating smoke indoors so we removed it. Very happy to have cleaner air quality.

Heat pump was noisy at first but it was an easy fix, it was a loose filter.

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ryan10e t1_j6imzs4 wrote

Vermont may not use fossil fuels for electricity, but ISO New England does generate around 40% of its electricity from gas, tiny amount from coal, plus imports from NYISO and New Brunswick. That said, your heating related emissions are still probably 10x lower with the heat pump than from gas/oil. Can’t wait to join the heat pump gang.

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ImpossibleMeatDonut t1_j6mhu4n wrote

It’s been a long time since I had to worry about a heat pump. However, if I remember, heat pumps can only heat at certain temperatures. Once it gets below like 20 ( honestly can’t remember the cut off temp ), the emergency heat kicks in. That’s when your electric bill will go up considerably. Again, my knowledge is probably limited and out dated.

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Careful_Square1742 t1_j6mkuy6 wrote

depends how you're set up. ducted heat pumps can run down to sub-zero temps. When paired with a condensing gas furnace (LP or natural), the heat pump shuts off and switches to fossil fuel around 20 degrees, meaning heating above 20F is done by the heat pump which is incredibly efficient.

​

you're probably thinking of electric resistance heating (like a giant toaster). Those aren't even allowed in VT anymore in commercial buildings under VT Energy Code (except VERY specific cases).

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Unique-Public-8594 t1_j6mmnn4 wrote

Thanks for your response.

Ours has an auxiliary heating coil for colder temps.

It was bitter cold in December but the electric bill was manageable. But also we’ll see what the Jan and Feb cost us. So, so far I’m a fan. I know, people are saying it will be broken and no parts available in 2 years. We’ll see.

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Careful_Square1742 t1_j6mzmi5 wrote

I wouldn't worry too much - I think the people saying it'll die and you can't get parts are the outliers. I've got one in my house going on year 4 with zero issues beyond a loose nut that was making noise. it'll make heat without issue Friday night when it's crazy cold.

I used to be in commercial HVAC and oversaw installation of literally thousands of heat pump systems in VT. we serviced thousands more and maybe had a dozen lemons. that's a pretty good ratio. parts availability since 2020 has been problematic, but that's across the board from cars to refrigerators. it's getting better. overall, heat pumps are pretty reliable if you take care of them.

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ImpossibleMeatDonut t1_j6msam3 wrote

You are right, I was thinking of the electric resistance heating. Thanks for the clarification.

We lived in an apartment that had the electric baseboard heat. For our tiny apartment, we regularly got $250+ electric bills in the winter. There was a lot wrong in that apartment though, including single pane windows.

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NessunAbilita t1_j6jnlj8 wrote

Hey friendo, could you DM me about your ductwork for heat pumps? I also want to do this with the age of our home being what it is, but am getting a lot of humming and hawing from our heating guys. Would love to hear more somIncan speak confidently

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General_Explorer3676 t1_j6i5mdi wrote

im not looking forward to the freeze this week and the bill after tbh

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fergal-dude t1_j6ibahc wrote

Just an FYI, you can run a wood stove when you are not home. Ours used to start in January and go until March. BEST heat ever. Now I let it go out every few days as once it gets above 32 it's just uncomfortable, and that happens more often now.

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lottabigbluewater OP t1_j6iiie9 wrote

Oh totally! Mine is safe to leave. However it always seems to burn out if I don't tend to it within 4-5 hours - sure, it'll give out residual heat for longer, but not much. Any tips there actually? All I do now it get it going again in the morning but it's always stone cold when I get home from work.

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fergal-dude t1_j6ikrjv wrote

It took me a few years to get comfortable with it, so I understand. I didn't grow up with a wood stove, but we burn about 2 cords a winter these days and it keeps going whenever it's below 32.

So the best thing I ever did was learn that putting a channel in the coals was the best thing for getting the next log started. I just move the coles out of a 3 inche channel, from directly in front of where the air enters your firebox to the back of the stove.

Then lay the biggest, chuncky-est pieces, usually two, on top of that and let it go for 25-30 minutes, then turn the air vent all the way down and let it go. I can usually get a good eight hours if I have some chuncky pieces of wood. 4 small pieces DO NOT equal one large one.

When I'm splitting wood, I leave it as chuncky as possible. Then when I need small pieces, I keep the maul at the end of the garage and split one up. I found that I need need small pieces of wood much less often than I need large ones.

I used to fret that it would go out and try and play with the air vent to get it perfect, now, if it goes out, it goes out. But mostly it doesn't, you can revive some pretty dead coals with small pieces of wood, just move the coals around so the ash fall beneath it, create the channel, put on some small pieces of wood, then blow long and slow until they have a tiny bit of flame. Close the door and you should be good.

I hope this helps. Also, when I started burning wood 20 years ago the biggest mistake I made was not having dry wood wood on hand always. Stack or buy two years ahead of what you need.

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Definitelynotcal1gul t1_j6j0wyb wrote

Don't you get a lot of extra creosote leaving it on low all day long? We just started using wood as a "primary" heat source, but I don't want to leave it smoking all day long, and create a chimney problem due to being oxygen-starved.

And yeah, you can revive anything that's glowing relatively easily. One small piece of paper and a couple bits of kindling and you'll have it back to roaring in a few minutes.

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fergal-dude t1_j6jbt9v wrote

If you have a glass door on your woodstove, you can tell if you are producing creosote. So, occasionally I'll get a blackened glass, but then I just run it real hot after that and it clears up the glass and the stove pipe. We have the chimney cleaned every two years and get good reports on the amount of creosote that gets cleaned out.

You should run you stove hot for 45min-to-an-hour every day to keep the creosote build up down, but we do about every other the past 5 years. Do you have a thermometer on the stove pipe? If you don't, make sure you get one, get it into the burn zone daily if you are worried about it. You make creosote no matter how hot you burn, it's just important to get the wood stove up to temp to burn it off while it's not going to start a chimney fire.

But let's be honest, are you really burning wood if you don't have at least one chimney fire?

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Definitelynotcal1gul t1_j6jel3d wrote

Ha! I don't know, it's our first year with a wood stove. No chimney fires yet! I just took a picture of it and posted it on /r/woodstoving/ a few hours ago.

I've been keeping up with the treatment, so the glass and inside of the stove are mostly grey and not black/glassy. So, I think we're doing okay so far.

We do have a thermometer on both the stove and pipe and we've been keeping them in the burn zone. I'm mostly just concerned with running it long/low when we're either asleep or not home. We can only fit maybe 3 or 4 medium logs in the firebox so I doubt we can get 8 hours out of it. But I'd like to maybe be able to go to sleep and wake up without starting fresh.

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fergal-dude t1_j6jf25t wrote

Take your time. Try what I said about getting it going for overnight or all day, but do it first thing on a Saturday or Sunday morning while you are home and see how long it lasts. I do this when I WFH and don't want to be messing with it all day.

Again, not 3-4 pieces, one or two BIG ones. I try for one large chunk if I can.

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Definitelynotcal1gul t1_j6jfxuc wrote

Thanks for the advice. I think I need to split some bigger logs for next year. We purchased a few cords from the previous owner to get us going. Most of them are about 2-3 inches, very few at 4 or 5. That might be the key.

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fergal-dude t1_j6jfwbl wrote

That thing is pretty unique looking. I don't think I've ever seen a stovepipe curve like that either...

Our stove is now 18 years old but working well https://imgur.com/a/WlgTTyC

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Definitelynotcal1gul t1_j6jgizq wrote

I think it might be an optical illusion because I took it from the front. It's pretty straight, just leaning slightly. The connection makes a 90 degree angle with the wall.

How do you like your stove? We've got a second liner in the chimney for a room in the basement that we're probably going to get a 2nd stove for. So I'm shopping around a bit.

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fergal-dude t1_j6jhvr0 wrote

I like it, it's a Hearthstone but we got it at chimney sweep and I don't think I would buy from them again. A local hardware store sells them and I'd buy from them to keep the business local and keep a good relationship if anything went wrong. Chimney sweep isn't coming out for an hours drive to check into something. That's more important that the best deal or details about the stove. They all have to be built to certain standards these days.

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IndefinableMustache t1_j6jg4x6 wrote

Replace the accessible gaskets on your stove. I did just the door gasket and noticed a huge improvement in how long coals would stick around.

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Dire88 t1_j6j1m1g wrote

Depends. What model stove?

If it's a newer EPA stove they're built to be airtight except for the inlet you're adjusting. Some brands (looking at your Vermont Castings) have an ungodly amount of gaskets. If any one of them leak, your burn time can drop drastically. Same if its a catalytic stove and the cat is clogged or trashed.

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nbelang t1_j6j35l4 wrote

I've gone through $1400 of my prepaid fuel(paid $2616 for 800 gallons Aug 30)so far. I tried to talk with my landlord about weatherization, twice. She said, if it's too expensive then move. For the record, she's not a great landlord.

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zombienutz1 t1_j6ia6nk wrote

If you use an electric space heater, get the oil filled radiator ones. I used a regular fan/coil space heater for 3 weeks and only at night. It added $120 to the electric bill so I would caution going that route if you're looking to save money.

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patisme24 t1_j6in9ll wrote

Definitely use the oil filled radiator ones!! Because they don't use a fan or any type of motor, they are FAR more efficient! I've used one for years and it doesn't add much to the electric bill but makes a HUGE difference in the temperature of our apartment.

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largeb789 t1_j6jpvcp wrote

All resistive electric heaters are 100% efficient. Even the fan warms the air with as much energy as you put in. The oil filled ones do feel more comfortable since they have more of a radiative heat, but they won't save you any money if you use them to heat the room to the same temp.

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Soci3talCollaps3 t1_j6lnvm1 wrote

Exactly. Because "inefficiency" in any device is just energy that got converted to heat, which is what you want anyways in this case. I don't worry much about leaving my indoor lights on in winter for much the same reason, though some of that energy does escape out the window as light.

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vermontitguy t1_j6idk3u wrote

Put in mini-split heat pumps last summer. Haven't needed to fire up the oil burner yet this season, but it hasn't been below 15 degrees yet. This weekend will be a real test. My electric bill has been $320 for the past two months. In October without heat or AC, it was $165. So heat is costing about $155/month right now. I think oil would have been double that.

This summer, I'm considering adding a solar system and possibly a heat pump water heater to replace my electric water heater. House is 2500 sf, but we don't heat the lower level which is mostly below grade and stays around 55 degrees.

The mini-splits are made by Haier. I like them, but the thermistor on two of the three head units are wildly inaccurate, so it's been difficult to regulate the temperature. The contractor has been slow to get the thermistors replaced.

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jaylaxel t1_j6jgvl1 wrote

I also have Haier. I've moved the thermistor so it sticks out the top of the unit (looks like a little black antenna from far away) and that seems to have helped with the accuracy.

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vermontitguy t1_j6jp341 wrote

Thanks so much for this idea. I'm doing that as soon as I get home from work today.

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deadjennies- t1_j6ij9tt wrote

When I moved into my house the primary heating method was a really great wood stove in the living room. There was an oil furnace, but it didn't really work. We eventually updated the furnace with a new model and then oil prices started to rise. We had an apartment added over our garage this past year which included propane and split units so we had a split installed in our house as well to heat the back rooms.

We've probably spent about 11K updating the heating in our house, which is just under 2k sqft. I spend about $300 a month on wood (6 cords @ $275 - a pretty big increase this year), about $100 a month on oil (it doesn't run much) and I've estimated about $150 a month for the electricity to run the splits. We have a couple on plug in register heaters that get used a little here and there as well. The apartment belongs to my in laws and stays cold when they're not here, so the propane bill sits around 80 bucks a month, which they pay.

So all told, we're in for maybe $550 a month to heat the place. My wife and I both work from home and keep the place toasty. Paying half the bill in June, for the wood, helps take some of the weight off the monthly bills, but even still it feels like a lot.

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Loudergood t1_j6k7uhs wrote

Either your place is enormous or you're pumping heat through holes.

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Wintrgreen t1_j6ip6rx wrote

I had to use electric space heaters in the fall for a couple weeks while waiting for a new furnace to be put in… wasn’t even that cold and my electric bill almost tripled for that month. Would not recommend.

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lilolemi t1_j6ilcja wrote

On the semi plus side we just got an order of oil and it was $200 less than our first order in November.

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CowHuman7223 t1_j6k3b55 wrote

Wait until they pass the "Affordable Heat Bill" That adds an additional 70 cents per gallon charge. Just because the environuts want to force you to change.

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Johnny9Toes t1_j6l3pi3 wrote

"How to force people to change just because" was my favorite class in Environut University.

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Careful_Square1742 t1_j6idwu6 wrote

do you use a boiler (hot water) or furnace (hot air)? have propane for a stove?

heat pumps are fantastic if you have adequate power available for them. yes, there are supply chain issues currently for parts, but that's the same across the board right now. don't listen to the nay-sayers - a fair amount of new construction is going 100% heat pump heating here, often without backup heat sources. my Daikin system chuges along fine at -15f

a cheaper solution may be to switch to a propane condensing gas boiler/furnace. your oil unit is is likely around 80-83% efficient. meaning for dollar of oil you burn, 20 cents is going up the chimney instead of into your home. condensing gas appliances, when properly sized/installed are as high as 98% efficient. there's fewer BTU/gallon in propane vs oil, but the efficiency more than makes up for it

oftentimes your fuel supplier will set a propane tank for free/cheap, and a propane boiler/furnace will be cheaper to install than heat pumps.

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lottabigbluewater OP t1_j6ij0i4 wrote

Hi, thanks for your comment! I have a hot air furnace. I do not have propane - I have an electric stove and electric hot water heating. My electric bills have never been much of a concern to me (about 150 max/month). I wash on cold and take short showers so that's probably why.

I'll look into propane, one of my neighbors has a propane furnace. Maybe they can clue me in on costs, if they don't consider that too nosy. Thanks!

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darcy1805 t1_j6iiqiy wrote

Not looking forward to the bill after this next freeze. We've been keeping the heat between 58-62. Wishing I had locked in a rate this summer!

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shoesontoes t1_j6isyoy wrote

I think your inevitable electric bill would make the propane bill look enviable.

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the_walking_guy2 t1_j6j3chk wrote

The way to save money with space heaters is to set your home thermostat low and then use the heater to warm a very small area/one cozy room/yourself. If aiming to warm yourself, some style of radiant heater is best so you feel the heat, otherwise they are all basically the same efficiency wise to warm a room (assuming the heater itself has a functioning thermostat). I've had fans fail on cheap ones, which makes them overheat, so that's another plus for radiant styles.

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Decweb t1_j6j82yv wrote

Electric heat will never be as efficient or cheap as oil heat for a large square footage. And as oil has been above $5 all year I think, compared to $3 or less in past years, it's gonna hurt.

I've turned my whole house, except for two small rooms, down to 50 degrees on the thermostat. On most average days this has substantially reduced the amount of time the furnace is running, but it also means I need a jacket to stay in most of the other rooms. I've also stopped some wasteful washing habits w.r.t. hot water.

In a very small room I use electric heat which works reasonably well for that small space, not least because the hot water furnace radiator is in the floor and works very inefficiently.

Anyway, electric won't be your answer to heat the whole house. Good luck.

Oil/heating is no more expensive in Vermont than any other northern state, in fact our electricity is cheaper than many states because of its source. If you want to know how much your next oil fill-up will cost, look at the price of diesel at the pump, subtract about 80 cents per gallon, and that's probably what you'll pay for home heating oil.

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thisoneisnotasbad t1_j6iqtvr wrote

Electric is traditionally the most expensive way to heat.

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DDozar t1_j6ixxfr wrote

Traditionally true, less so these days. Heat pumps are pretty darn cheap to run, and solar panels can help offset costs. Though both require a significant investiture.

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thisoneisnotasbad t1_j6jeeh0 wrote

Agreed, but the poster didn't say a heat pump, he said,

>I am considering using portable electric heaters for the next month

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barstowtovegas t1_j6j8ycp wrote

Technology Connections on YouTube has a great video on heat pumps. My favorite heat pump fact is that, while electric heating is 100% efficient (not counting transmission losses), heat pumps can be over 100% efficient.

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sixteenandseven t1_j6ivb7g wrote

Don't do space heaters - it's way more expensive. If your woodstove is old, get a newer one - the technology has come a long way in the last few decades. I switched from an old 70's "iron box" stove to a more modern (but not exactly fancy) hearthstone and it's a world of difference. Easy to control the heat, not get overheated, and easy to keep it slow-burning all day.

Also consider heat pumps. I got them this year. Elec bill has gone up a TON, but the oil bill is down by more than enough to make up for it. We used to get a bill for ~200g of oil a month during the peak of winter, now it's like ~80g (we still use the boiler for hotwater and to supplement the heat pumps), but our elec bill is nearly $400.

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ArkeryStarkery t1_j6j6cx7 wrote

Just got two Mitsubishi heat pumps through the SEVCA program. $230/mo loan payment, about $200/mo electric bill. 1700sf. So far so good. Dunno about longevity yet, of course! But then, our gas heating system was also deteriorating to a beyond-repair state, so we had to invest in something new.

How's your roof insulation?

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Charlie3006 t1_j6j6oa9 wrote

We just filled up, so $875 in oil used over the last 7-8 weeks. House is always at 65 and we also get our hot water off the boiler. It's crazy for sure. We have an old wood boiler that is plumbed into the baseboard/hot water but have never used it.

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wampastompa09 t1_j6j98i5 wrote

Yeah…oil is expensive. I am in Burlington so we have gas heat.

Our last place was in E. Montpelier and was Oil forced hot air.

Could look into more efficient heating options, but the retrofit might be expensive.

When is the last time your furnace was serviced?

How old is the furnace?

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WantDastardlyBack t1_j6jk9ku wrote

It's probably too late for this year, but I highly recommend going into a co-op/group for heating oil and propane for the next heating season. I've been doing this for years and lock in in the early summer and then do monthly payments with the propane company.

We reached a point years ago where we were being charged $5.50 a gallon all because we were told our home didn't use enough propane (about 300 gallons a year usage) to justify a lower rate. We were penalized for having a pretty tight home in terms of insulation and having a pellet stove for the very cold weather.

I saw a post about Hilltop Energy and signed up. This year, we're at $2.92 a gallon. It looks like Keith still has oil plans (if you're in an area that's covered) still if you go with open/adjustable rate. Right now the rate is $4.09 a gallon for heating oil.

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E_White12 t1_j6kgu6f wrote

I’m going to come off as an asshole but if you make 80k and can’t afford heating oil your living outside your means. Just because the bank approves you for a certain amount doesn’t mean you need to use it all.

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lottabigbluewater OP t1_j6mmhow wrote

I don't make 80k. I wish I did. But you're right, it's all about smart choices and living below your means. Which I am struggling with now as well

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Archimedesphiddle t1_j6kq61k wrote

Putting in a wood stove at my house used 110 less gallons of fuel compared. to last year with no stove and after deducting wood usage for the month it came about to $280 in savings last month.

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NEK_USA t1_j6mdaxh wrote

Not to mention, I'm sure, major added warmth and comfort!

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alemap1969 t1_j6l54iy wrote

Electric heaters will cost more than heating oil. Had to do it one winter and my electric bill was insane.

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ChadFerg t1_j6mnqog wrote

I have a friend who used three electric heaters in their house as an main source of heat for three weeks and their electric bill was ≈$650

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floodurbasement t1_j6ixz7b wrote

$2000 for December..

Heating oil companies can get fucked.

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Gilashot t1_j6iy54d wrote

I switched from oil to ductless heat pumps this year. It’s costing me 70% less to heat my house and I’m keeping it 3 degrees warmer and I run them 24/7…never turn the temp down at night.They operate efficiently to -22 Fahrenheit.

I’m done with oil forever and will never pickup a piece of firewood.

There are DIY units you can install yourself that are nearly as efficient as what pros install.

1400 sq ft house, and I installed the pumps myself. Total coast was around $6000. Bore a pro and it would have been around $16,000. It would still pay itself off over several years, and the house is 70 degrees 24/7. It’s really a no brainer!

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MichEalJOrdanslambo t1_j6j1twm wrote

I had oil last year and was able to switch to natural gas over the summer. Bills are about 1/4 what they were last year

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lottabigbluewater OP t1_j6j948b wrote

I wish I could switch to natural gas 😭 they don't have it where I am. Not even the town has it. Closest town with natural gas is over 20 miles. Hopefully they make their way here eventually, but they may never.

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Atv821 t1_j6j4kqv wrote

I was in a similar situation when I purchased my first home a few years ago. The most important metrics I considered was cost per BTU, and cost of hardware, installation and maintenance over expected lifetime of the unit. You can easily calculate the cost of electricity, fuel oil, propane, wood pellets, or cord wood per BTU. Then figure in your equipment costs and can pretty easily arrive at a cost leader. For my situation, heating with wood pellets was far more economical over any other solution due to being a cost leader in BTU/$, has one of the longest lifespan, and the second lowest upfront hardware and installation cost in my situation. I was not interested in a traditional woodstove, but I believe that would beat them all.

As far as your comment about electric heating, that is by far the most expensive cost per BTU, especially if you are using electric resistive heating, like a traditional space heater. Remember that heat pumps are not electric resistive, instead of using electricity to make heat, the use electricity to move existing heat. AFAIK they move and “produce” about 3 watts of heat energy for every watt they consume, meaning they are 3x as efficient as a tradition space heater. Everyone’s situation is very different, however I can guarantee that heating with space heaters is by far the most expensive thing you can do.

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whys0brave t1_j6mje1w wrote

First thing I did after buying this house in August was to ditch the oil tank and get a complete infrastructure replacement to go propane. Natural gas also not an option for me and neither were heat pumps because of the material and layout of the house (concrete walls on some and not an open floor plan) it was expensive costing around 13k but I knew I needed to get the oil tank our first thing. I've been paying around 200 a month each for propane and electricity

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lottabigbluewater OP t1_j6mmm9h wrote

That's great you went ahead and got that done. My neighbor has propane, I'm going to talk to them about it

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whys0brave t1_j6mon2o wrote

I feared the potential liability of having an oil tank in the house. I read that if it leaks you are responsible for environmental cleanup both inside and outside and the cost would far out spend the cost of preemptively replacing the system so that's why I went ahead and got hat done immediately. Turns out I also needed a new roof, all new windows and doors and a new bath fitter immediately as well. 🤷‍♂️ Hopefully this house will give me a break soon!

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truevermonter t1_j6iozw5 wrote

This may not work for everyone, but I got a zero interest loan from the state and installed four heat pumps. I use my oil furnace only as back up and thus far have burned less than 100 gallons of oil. I do keep the house cold as you do but I stay comfortable by wearing layers. The heat pumps are sophisticated and also serve as air conditioning in the summer. My electric bill has risen of course but it is a great relief not to have to buy oil for the winter

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2q_x t1_j6j9j9s wrote

> Any long term planning I can do to move away from oil? No natural gas in my town, as in most of Vermont.

A Vermod, Pretty Good House, or Passive House? You could just bank all the money you currently burn.

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thetoneranger t1_j6mmucu wrote

I rented and lived in VT a year ago and made 36 k a year and never felt like I couldn’t pay my bills.

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