Submitted by honeybeedreams t3_10cccpx in vermont
sound_of_apocalypto t1_j4ganai wrote
Reply to comment by ais72 in Decentering Whiteness in Hiking and Fostering Inclusivity Outdoors by honeybeedreams
I think I get at least some of what the author is getting at, but the phrase you quoted (“a deep and likely unrecognized sense of belonging in those [outdoor] spaces") seems weird to me. There is also the following line: "A belonging felt so deeply that some might experience it as an entitlement, as a sense of ownership."
This is essentially speculation about what other people the author encounters on the trail are thinking. There's no real way of knowing what is in the minds of these other hikers unless they flat out told her.
I've gotten occasional "entitled" vibes from people on the trail, but that's just my view. After these unfriendly people passed me, I didn't stop them to ask "hey, why didn't you say hi? Shy? Anxious? Fearful? Feeling entitled? Self-absorbed a-hole? Think you own the trail? Rich and above poors like me without all the expensive gear?"
And I'm not sure I would ever describe the feelings I have while on the trail as "deep belonging" or "ownership". Far from it. Mostly I feel in awe of the place, thankful that I'm still ambulatory and able to have the experience, keeping an eye on the weather because in a short amount of time the place can become completely inhospitable and deadly. None of us (or perhaps very few) "belong" there, IMO. I'm there not because of some birthright, but just a desire to experience something beautiful. Seeing people of all types on the trail can only add to that.
thirtythreeandme t1_j4gexql wrote
Yeah, I really don’t think you’re making a strong case if your argument is built on an assumption like this. Little does the author know that I too feel this anxiety of not belonging on the trails because I’m not a regular hiker. Any time I go I have this “am I doing this right?” feeling. And anxiety brain likes to assume everyone around you is confident and judging you. But you can slap race onto this narrative and it gives the framing of having deeper social implications. The only real difference here (and it is a bit of privilege) is that when I have anxiety about this scenario, my race doesn’t come into play where if I were a POC, maybe I would attribute this feeling to my race.
The problem with looking everywhere for racial tensions is that you’ll see it everywhere. Even when the perception is incorrect. But if you questioned it at all, you’re a racist. Which is supposed to spook any well-meaning person from saying anything. No one wants to be called a racist, of course. But if we keep letting these narratives of the most subtle interpretations of racism flood the airwaves, it actually impedes the discussions of overt and nefarious racism happening in society. The population is just too fatigued from race talks to deal with it at that point.
ais72 t1_j4gm7c8 wrote
You’re making a great point about inclusion overall in the outdoors industry. Why does it have to be either/or? We should create a more welcoming space for POC… AND we should create a more welcoming space for people new to the sport(s).
thirtythreeandme t1_j4h6und wrote
I appreciate this sentiment. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t find that hikers are all that hostile to newcomers? All I really expect as a casual hiker is to not be subjected to any disrespectful behavior. I haven’t experienced any real gatekeeping behavior or overt exclusion (of course, I don’t hike all that regularly). It’s always nice if people are friendly and go out of their way to be helpful, but it’s a bit much to expect everyone to be in that headspace mentally. Sometimes we just don’t feel up to it.
I think anytime you enter a subculture, there’s going to be an uncomfortable phase before you feel like you fit in. That’s just the nature of trying something new. We can’t expect our hand to be held during this process. It’s nice if you have someone to do that, but mostly we just have to be adults and work through difficult things. It builds resilience!
ais72 t1_j4glxsx wrote
I quoted this line because I think it captures something most white people often do not question. If you are white, you probably do not ever worry that your race makes you less welcome in outdoor environments and clubs/groups. The author is saying that POC on the other hand do not feel this intrinsic sense of belonging. And it’s not just the literal physical space of a hiking trail — it’s the community / group spaces like the GMC, like a subreddit for hiking and appreciation of the outdoors in Vermont. I can’t imagine something that screams “you don’t belong” more than being told your feelings and perspective are stupid and invalid, which is what a lot of other commenters are saying.
sound_of_apocalypto t1_j4gp491 wrote
I don't take exception to her expressing how she feels and I'm in no position to question that. I feel her somehow divining what other people are supposedly feeling is less well supported.
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