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Intelligent-Hunt7557 t1_j4sbfmr wrote

Reply to comment by bobsizzle in Citing racism, MUHS girls’ basketball team skip game at Enosburg Falls by thedvlandgod

The adults in the stands have failed to police their own. They have failed the kids. You have no business pitting the sports teams against their racist detractors. But more importantly our opinions don’t matter. The student-athletes will make their own decision. Or are you actually advocating for someone to pressure them to play?

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bobsizzle t1_j4scwn1 wrote

You're advocating for them to let someone pressure them not to play. They can do what they want, but they're letting supposed racists dictate their life to them. There's a benefit to showing up and confronting bullies. There really isn't any benefit to forfeiting a game. It makes them look weak and scared to get their feelings hurt. And those are kids that grow up to be weak individuals. Or reliant on others. fight your battles and don't let words control you.

No one should pressure the kids to play. They should already know what to do. If they can't stand up for themselves, they are already lost.

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Intelligent-Hunt7557 t1_j4sjogr wrote

Your views on what is ‘weak’ go back to the Debating Nazis elements—‘just debate them, what’s so hard about that’?

Your error is in assuming the most righteous team will win. The lesson the students are learning is that their participation is voluntary and systems take their labor for granted at their peril. But sure, ‘shut up and play’ is one option…

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bobsizzle t1_j4somoj wrote

Again, it's not a debate. It's about self respect. They're letting someone else control their lives. Even if they lose the game, they still stood up for themselves.

And they're playing sports because they want to. No one is forcing anyone to play. In this matter, self respect should motivate them not to quit because some people are mean to them. This isn't 'shut up and play ' . That's stupid. They should speak up AND play. You're alluding to the NBA taking a stand. I don't remember any NBA teams forfeiting any Celtics games over racist fans.

I don't care if they play or not. They're not that good and it makes no difference what they do as far as the game. But In life, not playing a team because some people are racist doesn't help anything. Play them. Speak out. Forfeiting is letting them win and doesn't change anything. I don't know what these parents and students are saying. I imagine the worst. But MLK didn't stop protesting because people called him names. If you want to make a stand, actually stand up. Win or lose, showing up and speaking out makes a stronger point then not showing at all. Especially if they like to play.

I used to play on courts in California in the 90s and I'm white and I heard all kinds of names and white men can't jump references. I didn't care enough to quit. Trash talk or racism, or both, I don't know. You get respect for not quitting. I get why they don't want to play. But I don't think it's the right choice.

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Intelligent-Hunt7557 t1_j4tb44j wrote

That you want to pressure the kids to play instead of pressure the administration or fans to solve the problem is telling. We have plenty of those boss-sucking messages in society already today- ‘suck it up’- ‘grind it out’- ‘walk it off.’ You’re really not as invested in their wellness as you think if you’re not doing something to change the equation on the side with more power.

They know their worth and what they shouldn’t have to put up with. Coercing kids to accept less is immoral.

‘Debate,’ by the way, in the common parlance is any conflict of ideas or disagreement. It need not be a formal occasion with a debating society. Living human lives is about persuading others and ‘refusing to play is weakness’ is definitely too Cobra Kai for my taste…

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thisoneisnotasbad t1_j4undhy wrote

While I’m kinda with you, the other dudes plan does have some historical precedent. Since you decided to jump right to hitler, the 1936 olympics are a pretty famous debate the nazi thing you are talking about. Your argument would not have the us or anyone participate and certainly not have Jesse Owens compete.

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Intelligent-Hunt7557 t1_j4w2uyj wrote

So you think Enosburgh’s players and parents must be appeased so that they don’t invade? LOL.

The actual facts of the 1936 Olympics were so embarrassing for the US and/or boring that white America mostly made shit up, most of which is believed to this day. Jesse himself got sick of people not believing him and eventually co-signed the bullshit. I’d be happy to dive into the facts but maybe just Google ‘1936 Olympic myths’ yourself?

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Eagle_Arm t1_j5ke0p4 wrote

You are doing a great job of debating points u/bobsizzle never brought up and actively avoiding their actual reasoning. I'm not sure how much more clear they could make their point, but I guess it's easier to make yourself feel right when don't 'debate' the actual topic.

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Intelligent-Hunt7557 t1_j5ko91u wrote

Just because the words ‘shut up and play’ weren’t typed doesn’t mean the ideas weren’t in there. I mean it really wasn’t a well-thought-out plan t begin with. Maybe u/bobsizzle knows - why would loser racists be more quiet in the stands after having been beaten? Ever hear of 1/6?

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Eagle_Arm t1_j5kr9i9 wrote

Yup, you're absolutely right. That's what they meant when they typed. They didn't typed that and instead typed different words with different meanings, but that's what they meant. It's without a doubt that, rather than the words they actually typed. I'm feeling fortunate you could translate and call out the second-coming of Hitler over here!

How could anyone take the words they actually wrote and thought that those were the words they meant to type out, when they achtullly meant, "shut up and play"?

I'm glad my blinders were pulled off and I can now see their unwritten meaning that someone else concocted rather than what the person wrote themselves!

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