Markantonpeterson t1_j4wwzd1 wrote
Reply to comment by streetbum in Victim of Andrew Callaghan (Channel5) responds to his 'Apology' by [deleted]
So cancel culture is OP putting apology in quotes? I'd agree it's an unnecessary way to frame it, but not sure why it's a dead giveaway that cancel culture exists. And if you look at the whole response to the controversy as "cancel culture", then that's just dumb. I'm a huge fan of Channel 5 and Andrew, but this shit is fucked up, and an apology is so far from absolving him here. Especially when it was undoubtedly a planned PR move, I do think it was genuine, but it's still very much based around saving his career. I would just call this "dealing with the consequences", not cancel culture.
streetbum t1_j4wx943 wrote
The top multiple posts on the channel 5 sub are currently a stickied post telling people to cancel their channel 5 patreon, news about Tim and Eric cutting ties with him because of this, and this video. It’s an active cancellation. He’s losing his career right as he finally made it. If people aren’t willing to accept an apology and multiple actions being taken on his part to fix his behavior, then you’re just trying to cancel him…
Markantonpeterson t1_j4wzlvd wrote
Again.. you're just listing consequences. These accusations aren't minor, it wasn't just one or two. It wasn't just a politically incorrect tweet. It is a serious situation. I think that's the main disconnect here, I don't think you agree with how serious it is. It seems obvious to me people aren't just gonna accept an apology for this and pretend like nothing happened. Tim and Eric don't want to be associated with someone who sexually assaulted someone. He said he was taking actions to fix his behavior, but that doesn't mean everything's suddenly all good. And if there were no repercussions for what happened he may not change at all. People should know that if you sexually assault multiple people that you may lose a big partnership with public figures. Your community may go against you. That just seems fair to me. I also don't think it's a new cultural thing, other then people now care about sexual assault.
streetbum t1_j4wzwxl wrote
It’s he said she said. No one has proven anything. This is a mob trial with torches and pitchforks. This is not justice. It’s a mob imposing their vision of accountability after he said she said comments. It’s a cancellation.
Aphor1st t1_j4x5v2f wrote
He admitted to doing it in his apology? Also there is a ton of people on death row on eye witnesses accounts with no other evidence. That is also he said she said.
“I think for a long time, I was behaving in a way that I actually thought was normal. I thought that, you know, going home from the bar alone made you a loser. I thought that persistence was a form of flattery. And I thought that you know, if at first somebody was reluctant, you know, they’re playing hard to get just try harder,” he said. “And if you think someone’s feeling you, you know, make a physical advance and see if they go with it.
“And I think that especially I realized when so many young people, especially young men rushed to defend me when this stuff first started coming out that this type of sex pest behavior is normalized. And a lot of people think this stuff is normal,” he continued. “And I don’t think that it is and I think that I want to be fully responsible for not having a fluid understanding of consent. And what enthusiastic two-way consent looks like.”
Vlad__the__Inhaler t1_j4zpruj wrote
So admitting your mistakes and genuine regret are a reason for witch hunts?
The cries for cancelation started right after the accusations, not after him admitting his guilt. And let's be fucking real. Being pushy and pressuring someone to consensual sex is a shitty thing to do, but it is NOT the same as sexual Assault.
But sure, let's treat him like Harvey winesteins little nephew...
Visual_Ebb6867 t1_j50cadj wrote
It’s not a witch hunt when the dude came out and admitted he’s a witch lol. Witch hunt implies it’s all fake
Aphor1st t1_j50jvt9 wrote
People how commit sexual assault should be punished. Being a sex pest, which he admits to, is a form of sexual assault. This dude will probably never see a jail cell so he should lose his career instead.
An apology does not make the trauma that these women suffered though go away.
Vlad__the__Inhaler t1_j50s9fd wrote
It doesnt. But i would rather show people that admitting mistakes and making amends is the way to go.
He didnt rape the victims. He didnt commit murder. But people act like he did.
Admitting his actions is something most people in this spineless society wouldn't even consider. Acting like that makes it worse is ridiculous.
Let him face the consequences. But give him the opportunity to do better than he did in the past.
Aphor1st t1_j50tdwf wrote
Yes he can have to opportunity to do better but he no longer deserves to be in the public eye. Also being a sex pest is a form of rape. It’s called sexual coercion. Forcing women to consent is not consent it’s rape.
Sololololololol t1_j52kw5a wrote
That’s called a post hoc rationalization
Aphor1st t1_j52x02l wrote
I’m gunna say no.
Sololololololol t1_j53fy0k wrote
That’s fine, doesn’t change the fact
yes_but_not_that t1_j4x8ydp wrote
You asked if "cancel culture" was putting "apology" in quotes. So they actually listed the things that happened. This goal post moving that's very popular in discussions like this feels so eerily similar to the narcissist's prayer:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
What is the appropriate goal for a person who did something fucked up? For them to become better? Or for them to hurt? Sometimes hurt can be a helpful path to betterment, but the idea that it's a necessary requirement is deeply weird, bordering on sadistic.
I've seen a lot shitty people become better without being globally shamed to the brink of suicide. It's truly sad that online mobbing is so normalized that an entire generation sees it as the natural "consequence". There are other, better options.
Markantonpeterson t1_j4xc4og wrote
Lmao, what an odd response. I wasn't moving goal posts, I was responding to his explanation of why it's cancel culture.
The point of this isn't to hurt Andrew. That's a byproduct of him being held accountable. I'm not saying Tim and Eric have to cut ties, i'm explaining why they did. Who is saying that it's necessary to hurt him? You are arguing that this shouldn't ruin his career, but what does that entail? His partners need to keep working with him and his fans can't stop watching him? Anything else is cancel culture?
yes_but_not_that t1_j4xgey4 wrote
Unrelenting public shaming is what most people mean by "cancel culture", if you're actually asking and not just being obtuse.
There are a lot of consequences and accountability that don't include internet mobs and global shaming. I'm not arguing anything about his career. I'm arguing that public shaming is deeply gross and flawed, and it's sad that so many have embraced it as a natural consequence—the overall tenor of your replies.
You're stepping in and out of having a perspective here but then bring it right back with words like "consequence" and "held accountable". Both those words imply pushing someone to the brink of suicide was deserved. If that's not what you think, feel free to clarify.
Markantonpeterson t1_j4xjbuy wrote
> but then bring it right back with words like "consequence" and "held accountable". Both those words imply pushing someone to the brink of suicide was deserved.
Woah, WHAT THE FUCK? How the F U C K is that implied? What is wrong with you people? You act like "held accountable" is some vague thing, it fucking isn't. It's actually what Andrew started in his public response. All i'm saying is it's not the end of him taking accountability. Losing his deal with Tim and Eric is part of it to. It's whatever the fuck happens. I was arrested in high school. What happened is everyone I knew learned about it. I was suspended from school and my sports team. I'm not leading some public shaming campaign. I'm explaining why he's facing repercussions. Your claiming i'm advocating for his fucking suicide? What the flying fuck is the matter with you? I'm a huge fan of his, i'm gutted by this. Fuck you people. Seriously, the responses i'm getting here make me fucking sick.
yes_but_not_that t1_j4xn708 wrote
I'm not sure which "you people" you're lumping me into, but I would at best call myself a casual consumer of his content. Sounds like you might've been a bigger fan. I'm speaking as someone vehemently opposed to public shaming, because it feels fucking medieval.
Are you genuinely asking how that's implied by your responses or just need a moment to feel shock? If you see a global shaming campaign that matter-of-fact put this kid in a pysch ward as "accountability", that implies you believe it was deserved. It's fine that you didn't mean to imply that, which is why I asked you to clarify.
This is exactly my problem with these conversations. No one wants to actually face the harmful, gross realities of public shaming—it's just a leaderless internet trend they can log in and out of. They want to focus on the initial fucked up actions (they were) and then hand-waive the reaction no matter how net-harmful it may be.
And no, going to jail and feeling local embarrassment is not in the same universe as global humiliation. But even what you went through, I'm equally opposed to. I'm genuinely sorry. Any consequence that isn't solely focused on rehabilitation is fucked in my opinion, including the entirety of the prison industrial complex.
ballebeng t1_j4z23bf wrote
No, sexual assault is what’s deeply gross and flawed.
ballebeng t1_j4z1yfi wrote
He could work at Walmart or similar as most other people do.
Sololololololol t1_j4x1t3n wrote
My guy, literally every action can be called a consequence, it’s honestly mindlessly flippant and empty statement. “Oh Tim murdered his wife because she burnt the toast? Sounds like you’re just listing consequences hheuebeuhu”
Like you provide less than nothing to the conversation that lazy analysis like that.
ballebeng t1_j4z4b49 wrote
No one here is arguing for violence as a consequence.
However, if Tim wanted to have a divorce due to burnt toast, then that is completely his prerogative and such a divorce would be the consequence of her actions.
Sololololololol t1_j4ze24h wrote
You're missing the point likely because you don't want to follow the logical conclusions so let me make myself more clear.
How about Tim's wife burns the toast so he talks ill of her to everyone and gets her ostracized and fired from her job and kicked out of her friend groups.
theBizz1138 t1_j52t38h wrote
That’s the cringiest analogy I’ve ever read
Sololololololol t1_j53fzc5 wrote
Who?
Sololololololol t1_j546odl wrote
Cute how you instantly shut up after I told you to google it 😂
theBizz1138 t1_j547gq8 wrote
When? There’s nothing in my notifications about googling it. So people make silly cakes. I’m not getting what’s so cringy. And why you think 99% are made just for likes and not a just a picture of silly cake. You haven’t said what is actually cringy. Have you ever seen when someone gives their friend a cane for their birthday? This is what that is.
Sololololololol t1_j54cv01 wrote
theBizz1138 t1_j55g6ir wrote
So those links don’t say anything about google. I can see you left comments if I look at your history but when you click on them they don’t exist. Are you sure you didn’t edit or delete them? Saying something is cringe isn’t explaining why.
So be you specifically look for an image now your mad you see it? Just because it’s in the google search your searched for doesn’t mean it’s plaguing Reddit.
Sololololololol t1_j560v1l wrote
Idk what you’re on about, I said to go google image search it cuz you kept insisting.
You honestly are a moron. “Heh give me proof of this happening”
“Okay, here”
“Yeah well, that’s only because you’re specifically searching for it”
“???”
Yeah you ain’t worth the brain cells lost talking to you
And yes, I explained why I find it cringe and if you’re too dull to know how to read that’s on you, you’re literally the only person in this thread who’s this remedial.
theBizz1138 t1_j562tc0 wrote
I asked you to show me in your feed. You said you seem this stuff all the time… I didn’t believe you. You asked me to specifically google it… how the fuck is googling an image the same as it popping up with out searching in your feed
The things you look at on Reddit are why you see nut sack cakes so much…. What are you looking at?
Again, saying something is cringy does not in anyway explain why other than you said so.
Sololololololol t1_j56bd23 wrote
Yeah you're too remedial for this conversation.
ballebeng t1_j4zhoau wrote
Imagine comparing burnt toast with sexual assault.
Different actions have different consequences.
Sololololololol t1_j4zhyf7 wrote
Yeah it’s called an analogy
ballebeng t1_j52dvgb wrote
No, it is called a strawman.
Sololololololol t1_j52ko3x wrote
Is that so? I don’t believe you know what that word means. Prove it to me and explain what the straw man is I supposedly used here.
theBizz1138 t1_j563h02 wrote
People don’t like me because they found out I’m a pervert is a hell of a lot different than ostracizing someone for burnt toast… this is why you’re SO steps out on you
Sololololololol t1_j56befv wrote
Are you mentally unwell?
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