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Howdocomputer t1_j515mvh wrote

Reply to comment by ThatNugYouDropped in Possibly the most important documentary out right now by DoutFooL

It's less about hating Andrew Tate, and there is plenty to hate there, but rather recognizing and learning to deal with what he represents. Disillusioned young men are being radicalized by people like Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson and that is a problem considering what these people stand for.

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DoutFooL OP t1_j5166ra wrote

This is exactly why I feel this doc is so important. It shows the danger and also how behind it all is solely someone seeking to profit off of these vulnerable people.

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ThatNugYouDropped t1_j516peg wrote

Why do we need to recognize or learn to deal with anything? I’ve never had one single Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson fan do anything harmful to me or anybody around me. More often than not they tend to be more open to discussion despite being the so called close minded ones but that’s my own experience. I don’t really see the point of this and I don’t see why this is anybodies problem but the people that listen to their messages and take the wrong things from them. I’ve listened to both of them and I’m not radicalized at all. I have 2 children a fiancée and all it did for me was remind me to focus on those things as a man.

I wonder if you’ve even listened to their message. Or if you’ve listened to what other people say their message is and interpret it as. Actually LISTEN to what Tate and Jordan Peterson have to say in longer context and you’ll see it’s not this horrible bullshit all these articles and people make it out to be. There is genuine good to be found in the things they say

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DoutFooL OP t1_j5176o0 wrote

Wow…you REALLY need to watch this doc. But I’m guessing you wont. Good luck out there

Edit: this comment (one I’m replying to) is like the epitome of the problem with the philosophy depicted in the video and again a great example of why this doc is important

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ShenanigansCommence t1_j519o2c wrote

Would you consider everything that Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson have to say as being wrong and toxic masculinity?

Edit: tried to watch the vice documentary you linked but it's been location blocked so can't view it, would appreciate an alternative link

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DoutFooL OP t1_j51aaul wrote

Would you consider every part of any religion to be true? Just because some of it strikes a chord does not mean there isn’t a huge fault inherent to the ideology - I’ll say this again, watch the video and you’ll quickly see the ingrained issues in tate’s philosophy- I know nothing of Peterson, but am guessing there are similar issues.

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ShenanigansCommence t1_j51c17b wrote

Would you really classify Tate as a religion ? He's gone mad with the fame and it's obviously gone to his head. Have you seen why he's become popular ? His ideology is anti toxic-feminism. Today's society is vilifying men and boys at every turn, he highlights the common contradictions that are constantly experienced. Now I stand with you on the fact he's a moron and mysoginistic as fuck. But alot of his points find home with experiences males have been exposed to and continue to be exposed to. Jordan Peterson would be a more sophisticated and articulated anti toxic-feminism advocate.

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DoutFooL OP t1_j51d3tb wrote

Not classifying tate as a religion (though I think he tries to operate on the same wavelength). Merely was trying to illustrate just because some parts may ring true, that does not excuse the other parts that are exclusionary or ask for dogmatic belief at the the detriment of others’ well-being. Yes there are parts of belief systems that feel true, but you must recognize and not excuse (because of the small truths) those parts which are inherently problematic.

Edit: anti-toxic feminism…I get that. But it doesn’t excuse the swing back to supreme toxic masculinity. Watch the doc - this stuff screams of men afraid of losing control over women and afraid of being emasculated.

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ShenanigansCommence t1_j51dice wrote

So using that logic we shouldn't have any beliefs at all then ? I implore you to provide an example of a belief system that doesn't have problematic aspects to it. Avoiding the simple and vague "be good to others" types.

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DoutFooL OP t1_j51e3wf wrote

I would say the only system to believe in is “to do unto others.” all other belief systems are inherently problematic and the systems Tate and other opportunists offer are even worse. That’s the point - full stop.

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ShenanigansCommence t1_j51fp1j wrote

As you said all belief systems are problematic, what problems in other belief systems make them any better than his ideology ? Religions are incredibly problematic, do you want to vilify anyone who is part of a religion that you don't agree with ?

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DoutFooL OP t1_j51gl5j wrote

Some beliefs are more harmful (outwardly) than others, no?

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ShenanigansCommence t1_j51gt6a wrote

Such as ?

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DoutFooL OP t1_j51hczm wrote

The ones displayed by Tate in this very video(duh, no?)

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ShenanigansCommence t1_j51if1y wrote

Just a point on the video, I can't watch it due to it being location restricted so if you could provide a version of it I can watch I'd appreciate it.

So going off the videos and reels I've seen of Tate and his ideology, what makes his beliefs worse than toxic feminism ? Or the beliefs of Racists ? Or even the beliefs of countless other ideologies that result in deaths, attacks and abuse of countless others? His ideology focuses on men being empowered to not be afraid of this new PC culture and being vilified for just being a man.

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DoutFooL OP t1_j51jxmf wrote

But in his view, “being a man” consists of subjugating women. Maybe it’s borderline equivalent to what you’re referring to as “toxic feminism.” They can both be wrong (and I would argue are). Why believe one is worse than the other? Both systems hinge on lowering the value of the other human being. Male toxicity is more so now being normalized and accepted due to a backlash of female empowerment (maybe) solely because men are feeling emasculated by their loss of power. Why argue that this doesn’t exist or, even worse, that it is more acceptable.

Edit: wish I could provide a link where you could watch the vid. Sadly, I’m constrained by the limits of the internet.

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ShenanigansCommence t1_j51lw1k wrote

I would agree with your statement that both are wrong. What I see as empowering men is seen as backlash of female empowerment. I'd consider this a result of years of men being forced to remain silent in fear of being called a sexist if they were to point out flaws in modern feminist agendas.

Tate is a moron who given enough rope hangs himself with his lack of brain cells and stupid comments, he still isn't wrong on a number of points especially regarding men in today's society who are subjected to constant belittlement from feminists and how they're treated. .

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DoutFooL OP t1_j51mb8t wrote

Fair enough. The sad thing is, what you’re speaking about leads men to following Tate’s toxic belief, which goes back to why I think this video is important in today’s online landscape.

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ShenanigansCommence t1_j51oam8 wrote

Id actually love to meet someone who believes Tate is infallible. Just out of gross curiosity and then have them checked for a mental deficiency. I'm yet actually meet anyone who does, anyone I've talked to about him takes his ideologies with a pinch of salt at best while also reiterating what I've said earlier and him hitting home with so many examples and calling the bullshit on them. If anything it's a vice video that is stirring up views from people that refuse to acknowledge that their own ideas are wrong.

At the end of the day it's a crazy and fun world we live in, but as they say it takes all kinds to make it go round. Except people who hurt dogs they can find their place in hell.

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