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oxtailplanning t1_ituvt5h wrote

Reply to comment by uncheckablefilms in Metro studying Silver Line Express service by walkallover1991

Many places don't do 4 track systems. Also it wasn't worth the upfront cost for a system that was lucky to be built at all.

Not for nothing, DC doesn't really have the station density to warrant express tracks. For example here is Paris's metro over the DC area (note Paris is also entirely 2 tracks.)

Here is a more in-depth explanation of the 2 vs 4 track system

Edit: Grammar

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metrazol t1_ituzjcc wrote

That map of Paris stations makes feel uncomfortable, strange feelings deep in my soul. Port Towns Metro when?

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Gitopia t1_itv5jjk wrote

Yes even more metro stations in floodplains.

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metrazol t1_itvaex2 wrote

They can have drains or uh... Floaties for everybody?

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DeepSeaDweller t1_itwdlaz wrote

This should be at the top of the thread.

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oxtailplanning t1_itxmkbu wrote

Zachary Schrag's book on Metro was really eye opening and made you appreciate so many of the decisions we live with today. Answers questions like: Why didn't the entrances have canopies, what station did locals get wiped off the map (not Georgetown), why didn't Tysons originally get a line, and so many more. Great book, fascinating read.

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DeepSeaDweller t1_itxo1tv wrote

You're the second person to bring it to my attention on here in less than 24 hours, sounds like I might have to look into it. Anything in there about the disaster that is only having three trunk lines running through the city?

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oxtailplanning t1_itxoplt wrote

Yep. A WHOLE lot about that. Like a lot a lot. Let's just say it was a fight to even get the green line built.

This book makes you appreciate statehood even more with all the ways congress held DC hostage. It will also make you mourn the loss of Kennedy even more, the only true presidential friend of the Metro.

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GauchoBearBulldog t1_itv48jy wrote

Rather than four tracks for the entire line, could the express function be accomplished with the existing or additional pocket tracks or passing loops as suggested in the ggwash comments?

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oxtailplanning t1_itv9g0b wrote

Maybe, but you really have to ask if that would be worth the extra money. And besides, for long distances, metro is already faster than almost any other form of transit, so is it really worth saving the 5 - 10 min? As demonstrated by OP, it wouldn't increase ridership, it would not greatly reduce the need for single tracking, and it would come at the expense of other improvements.

Frequency improvements would do more to reduce travel time way more than express lines. And as GGWASH points out, additional lines would do more to alleviate the pain of single tracking more than extra tracks.

I'm not saying that they wouldn't be good things, but with limited resources, is it the best bang for your buck?

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jumperalex t1_itvv0m0 wrote

> for long distances, metro is already faster than almost any other form of transit

I hear you for a lot of situations, especially anything that compares to I66 travel. But for the airport, with the free airport lanes, I probably have to disagree.

Of course parking isn't cheap nor is a Taxi/Lyft.

But going with the theme that more lines would be better, I would REALLY like to see a line from Springfield to Dulles with stops along the way. Or if not Dulles, probably makes more sense to go Springfield to Tyson to bypass the core for anyone coming from points south. I'm not sure if hitting E Falls Church would be better (a hub) or worse (over crowding).

Or basically, a beltway line I guess [shrug]

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oxtailplanning t1_itw3khr wrote

I would make the argument that Springfield to dulles would make more sense as a VRE spur, but I agree with the sentiment.

The next, most likely metro line is the blue line loop.

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jumperalex t1_itwh1o2 wrote

Sure I'd buy that. Literally :)

And OMG Blue Line Loop would be AMAZEBALLS ... if it existed for the last 8 years of my life because I don't plan on needing to go where it goes by the time it would happen :( but still a great looking idea. The places that would connect need it SO SO bad.

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oxtailplanning t1_itxnq0x wrote

If I were king of the world I would have it go a little farther north after hitting Georgetown to connect it to Adams Morgan , plus I would have it go a touch farther east aftr Union station in order to get something in Trinidad and then come down and hit Capitol Hill.

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jumperalex t1_iu2foqe wrote

You've got my vote! And I don't even live in DC. But I would LOVE a way to get there faster, cheaper, and more regularly so I can stop using Lyft.

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alatennaub t1_itx0ocp wrote

The RER in Paris absolutely has express trains and has density closer to that of DC.

The problem is that the DC Metro can't decide if it wants to be RER or Métro (or S/U-Bahn for those more familiar with Germany).

That said, express trains don't require 4 tracks. If you go to Madrid, most of Cercanías (their RER/S-Bahn system) generally has 2 tracks, but will break into 3 tracks at many stations to enable an express train to jump a local train at certain stations. Their Metro, though, like Paris, is exclusively 2 track.

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oxtailplanning t1_itxm2k0 wrote

Agreed, Metro is both a commuter rail and an intra-city metro.

It's definitely not as big and far reaching as RER (1/3 the milage and stations), so that comparison is also not perfect. Metro lines aren't covering as much ground as RER, and don't have the density of a real metro system, so I still think the point stands that "express" tracks don't really bring a lot to the table.

To briefly compare to NYC: The entire red line is 27 stations (31 miles), while the A train local in NYC is 40 stops (also 31 miles). The A train express is 18 stops, but it's also a bit shorter, roughly 20 miles. So by that measure, the redline is more or less an "express" train with that density of stations per mile.

edit: conciseness.

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alatennaub t1_itxn6ar wrote

Honestly I've felt much of the silver extension might be best spun off as its own line in recognition of the dual nature. Run it at 10 or 15 minute intervals, and then try to bring the urban core of the line to 5 or less. If you do that, you could do an airport express train that saves real time too without sacrificing too much.

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oxtailplanning t1_itxof3u wrote

Agreed. There are going to be a lot of trains running at half empty as they return from the Virginian exurbs back to the urban core.

Perhaps Loundon County will take the approach that Arlington did and develop those stations into some real TOD town centers. Or they will take the fairfax approach with the orange line and make them shitty parking lots surrounded by highways and SFH.

My money is on the later, but hey, a man can dream.

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