Submitted by superdookietoiletexp t3_yi9t9i in washingtondc
Comments
Evening_Chemist_2367 t1_iuhtel1 wrote
They also need to get enforcement deals in place with Maryland and Virginia. I don't even buy that it's about poverty. If someone's resourceful enough to be able to recurrently get an authentic looking, weather-proof temp tag then they should also be resourceful enough to get a real one. I think it's more about knowing it's easy to skirt the laws in DC and knowing you can get away with all kinds of shit in DC and not face any consequences. Just look at all of the carjackings as yet another example. That idea of zero meaningful consequences needs to end.
9throwawayDERP t1_iui7vxi wrote
if DCPS MPD is allowed to pull over cars with violations and impound on the spot; this problem solves itself.
Master-Musician5006 t1_iuikm40 wrote
DCPS = DC Public Schools
I think you mean MPD
9throwawayDERP t1_iuj7n0l wrote
lol, yup.
celj1234 t1_iuivg6i wrote
Political suicide for any VA or MD politician to make that deal.
mr-sandman-bringsand t1_iui9zx6 wrote
I am confounded by people explaining why we shouldn’t enforce safety rules - people of all colors/varieties are run over by cars at the end of the day - in fact it probably hurts poorer communities worse
Potential-Calendar t1_iuikjai wrote
Yep, wards 7 and 8 have by far the highest fatality rates, but disingenuous people who just want to be able to endanger everyone with no consequences will hide between words like equity. Beyond ironic and into disgusting when you look at the actual inequitable rates of pedestrian fatalities.
superdookietoiletexp OP t1_iuiddqf wrote
It does. Wards 7 and 8 have the worst traffic statistics in the city.
pengo242 t1_iuht0vg wrote
Ugh, yes they will whine, but too bad, being poor or black isn't an excuse for not following laws
Pipes_of_Pan t1_iui638q wrote
I am guessing most people on here will be snarky but setting ambitious goals for public safety is good and changing course when things aren't working is also good. For me, what makes the pedestrian experience unsafe are drivers who aren't even close to following the rules of the road; the infrastructure investments, by and large, have been the right ones.
AndrewRP2 t1_iui7axx wrote
But it has to be combined with enforcement. Simply setting up more cones that people run over, and more speed bumps only does so much without enforcement.
Pipes_of_Pan t1_iuibnzz wrote
I disagree because I believe that the traffic calming efforts have made us safer from the average driver. You can feel the difference from even five years ago. I don't think that's a small accomplishment.
Formergr t1_iuijt1h wrote
> I believe that the traffic calming efforts have made us safer from the average driver. You can feel the difference from even five years ago.
Except traffic deaths are at an all time high, as noted in the article. So just because it "feels" safer to you versus 5 years ago, doesn't mean it is. It actually is not.
Pipes_of_Pan t1_iuikasa wrote
Right, if that’s your only metric but cycling down 14th St. NW is MUCH safer now than it was before. Same with cycling across town. Both places I was hit by cars on my bike are now protected lanes. So yeah, the effort has helped. Same story with the traffic calming around crosswalks.
BrightThru2014 t1_iuixbwi wrote
I’m not sure what you’re point is, you’re against additional enforcement following a historic high in traffic fatalities? Infrastructure changes take time, we need to start saving lives now.
Pipes_of_Pan t1_iuizsii wrote
I’m saying that the infrastructure changes are already saving lives and “enforcement” of people who are speeding or being reckless is not a simple process.
I am not an expert but I have read enough to understand that there’s an ebb and flow with traffic safety - some people will drive FASTER if they see protected sidewalks and lanes because they stop worrying about their safety. At the same time, sidewalk and bike lane protections DO protect pedestrians from the average driver.
I do believe in stepping up enforcement for bad actors, just that it’s not a simple flip of the switch.
BrightThru2014 t1_iuj0pr0 wrote
I fully support more infrastructure changes. But I vehemently disagree that flipping the switch on enforcement wouldn’t immediately improve traffic safety within a few months. As of now DC is the only jurisdiction to my knowledge where you can receive an infinite number of reckless driving tickets and still not have your license revoked. Aside from license suspensions, if I remember correctly, it would take multiple decades for DC to boot every eligible car. I literally think it would be as easy as increasing DC’s booting team X20, start booting every car above the bootable limit, and you’ll have people obsessively following the laws in no time.
Pipes_of_Pan t1_iuj0w9z wrote
Ok. How do you increase the booting team 20X overnight; you're talking about hiring like 200 people
BrightThru2014 t1_iuj1js0 wrote
Subcontract existing towing services? Train new people? How hard is it to tow a vehicle, it’s not rocket science, they could ramp that up fairly quickly.
Pipes_of_Pan t1_iuj1w3n wrote
With what money? And tow them where? Have you ever lived in a city where private towing companies run the show? (It sucks)
BrightThru2014 t1_iuj2kh2 wrote
You would appropriate more money and identify/create new lots to tow them too. Doesn’t DC have a budgetary surplus? DC Metro Area has a population of 6.5 million~ it would really not be hard at all to tap into existing infrastructure.
I don’t care who runs the show I care about not having 40+ people (predominantly lower income POC FYI) die every year due to traffic fatalities.
Pipes_of_Pan t1_iuj2xnh wrote
So would I, but I am also realistic about the fact that many (most?) of our worst drivers come from states that have decided to not give a shit about our traffic enforcement
ertri t1_iuiz9h6 wrote
Cones with rebar in them, on the other hand, are pretty effective enforcement (so is concrete)
Illin-ithid t1_iuidof6 wrote
It's absolutely frustrating how intentionally bad people drive. Running stoplights, never stopping for stop signs, not even looking for pedestrians when actually stopping at stop signs, speeding through alleys, straddling lanes and bike lanes, turning right from a middle lane to bypass a line, passing people on a one lane road by cutting through the bike lane. I've seen most of these multiple times in the last two weeks and I don't even drive.
It's not a surprise that pedestrians die regularly.
Pipes_of_Pan t1_iuifgad wrote
Right, but the enforcement of police chases through the city is dangerous for pedestrians, too. Enforcement is hard in the moment
Master-Musician5006 t1_iuikyfy wrote
Enforcement is so hard MPD doesnt even try
Illin-ithid t1_iuixnfp wrote
I kind of agree but now we're seeing the flip side. Where there is such confidence in non-enforcement that people stop caring about following safe driving laws.
I'm not saying that immediate chases for running a red light need to occur. But where we are is clearly bad.
Pipes_of_Pan t1_iuiyn68 wrote
Yeah I mean drivers also see the protected lanes so they drive faster, etc. There is no silver bullet for traffic safety.
NicholasAakre t1_iujy0nj wrote
Setting ambitious goals for public safety is good, but the snark is not undeserved. Traffic deaths have increased each year since Vision Zero was introduced and that is because the government isn't actively moving toward that goal.
If the city is serious about this, policy has to be focused on making the personal cars the last resort for traversing the city. And as much as people don't want to hear it, cars are the problem.
RoosterInMyRrari t1_iuikwsi wrote
Step 1: enforce traffic laws, like, any of them. At all.
xanadumuse t1_iuiuwua wrote
Agreed. But I think a big problem is changing peoples attitude toward pedestrians and cyclists. On top of that we have so many commuters from MD and VA that add to the already congested and small streets of DC( I’ll also add Uber and Lyft drivers to the mix).Every day I see people show a disregard to road rules- speeding through red lights and blowing through yellow while almost hitting pedestrians. I think the only way to change behavior is to either incentivize or tax. There’s always an argument that this will weigh heavier on certain populations but people shouldn’t be breaking the law.
Formergr t1_iuhleqv wrote
But it was working so well!
(/s obvs)
Ry90Ry t1_iuipazm wrote
What they did on New Jersey on making it one lane and adding lights and bike lanes w barriers is soooo nice
-myBIGD t1_iui8rls wrote
Although I’m skeptical, I really hope there is measurable progress this time.
Too_LeDip_To_Quit t1_iuik51o wrote
I am starting to doubt whether "Vision Zero" (even if you take the slogan seriously) is the right way to think about this.
Obviously, traffic fatalities are tragedies and we should do everything in our power to prevent them. I just don't know that it makes to frame DC's entire transportation policy around prevention of the worst possible outcomes.
I would much prefer to see a "reset" and renewed commitment to moveDC. Make Vision Zero a part of that. But also tell a bigger story.
Getting around DC sucks for most people. Whether you're walking, biking, driving, or transitting, it is often really difficult and stressful. That makes life here less enjoyable, depresses our local economy, and yes, produces unnecessary deaths and injuries.
But if you all talk about is V0, the only people who are gonna listen are activists who already agree with what you're trying to do.
NicholasAakre t1_iujwz68 wrote
> Getting around DC sucks for most people.
The vast majority of that is due to cars.
Walking is stressful because you gotta be on alert for reckless drivers at intersections (and maybe the sidewalk!) and car-centric infrastructure making it difficult to traverse the city on foot.
Biking is stressful because you gotta share road space with angry people operating vehicles the size of Sherman tanks.
Transiting is stressful because the bus gets stuck behind all the cars idling/parked in the few dedicated bus lanes that exist or are just stuck in general traffic.
Driving sucks because you are contributing to and at the mercy of traffic from all the other cars on the road.
Get rid of the cars (or drastically limit their use) and this city will instantly become more pleasant and livable.
Too_LeDip_To_Quit t1_iuk5o3y wrote
I don't disagree with anything you say. But I think transportation advocates also need to acknowledge that in huge swaths of DC, living without a car is not practical. That's concentrated in Wards 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8.
Maybe one day we will build a better city where that's not true. But today it is, and strident anti-car sentiment is not only a bad strategy politically, it's just not calibrated to the city's current needs
ocelotalot t1_iuizz59 wrote
I disagree about "vision zero" which is just the catchy slogan for the projects aimed at making streets safer, in general. Will there ever be zero deaths? No probably not, but they have to slap a slogan on it and I don't think that's a terrible one. But your point about DC being stressful I think is a good one. Now I'm not an expert on this, but DC (and surrounding area) has some of the worst traffic design I've ever had the displeasure of trying to navigate. I suspect that it leads to a lot of frustration which leads to bad and unsafe behaviors. I further suspect that fixing some of those things would in fact help everyone get where they're going faster and make things safer for drivers and pedestrians alike. Like if you know the light is on a 5 minute cycle and missing it is going to add that much time to your commute, that's a pretty big incentive to run it.
713ryan713 t1_iuivz66 wrote
People don't want to hear it, but relatively speaking, very few District residents commute by bike. Greater Greater Washington and others peg it at about 3% of the city's adult population. The entire D.C. transportation policy focuses on catering to this super niche demographic that uses a mode of transportation the overwhelming majority of residents don't use.
BrightThru2014 t1_iuixq0v wrote
A lot more people would bike if you built a critical mass of useable and safe infrastructure. Source: I biked for awhile until I moved jobs and my new route to the office felt unsafe.
apendleton t1_iujrw3a wrote
It's aspirational. Amsterdam, which now seems like a cycling utopia, had a cycling modeshare not too different from the US until the 1970s, when citizen outcry about motor vehicle deaths prompted major policy changes, which resulted both in drastically improved cycling infrastructure and disincentives to the owning of cars (taxes, etc.). Now cycling modeshare there is about 30%, but the infrastructure and policy came first, and the modeshare followed. DC ostensibly has a goal of increasing bike/ped/transit combined modeshare to 75%, and the way to accomplish that will be improvements to the infrastructure and service for all three, after which (hopefully) more people use them instead of driving.
I haven't been particularly impressed with Vision Zero stuff so far, but "[t]he entire D.C. transportation policy" as being about bikes is disingenuous: they've also added dedicated bus lanes, new crosswalks, leading pedestrian signals at existing crosswalks, traffic calming measures that increase pedestrian safety by reducing car speeds, etc., etc.
slutbag69420 t1_iuj1nav wrote
I was confused as the title makes it sound like “vision zero effort” not “vision zero” effort. I thought they were saying they weren’t gonna try anymore lol
NicholasAakre t1_iujvo3q wrote
They weren't trying in the first place. A simple punctuation change would make this headline a bit more accurate.
"D.C Revamps Vision: Zero Effort"
floppydisk1995 t1_iujdq0i wrote
Might as well say that considering deaths have only increased in recent years. It's a joke!
Less_Wrong_ t1_iujk16u wrote
Want vision zero? Ban cars.
[deleted] t1_iuivmuq wrote
[removed]
The_Sauce_DC t1_iuhm9yl wrote
“Visible involvement from the Metropolitan Police Department, he added, could be a game-changer.”
You’re going to need to let MPD impound for owed tickets, fake tags, etc and make room at Blue Plains or open another lot so they can hold these cars until tags obtained, insurance obtained, tickets partially paid,etc.
Theres going to be a lot of screaming and complaining from the progressive non-Urbanist set because the demographic numbers that this will effect will probably be lopsided and skewed towards the poor. Ultimately both wings of the progressive political spectrum and DC are going to have to find a middle ground to make Vision Zero work because half of the traffic deaths are in poor black areas despite a smaller population share:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/10/27/dc-vision-zero-traffic-deaths/#:~:text=The%20city%20recorded%2040%20traffic,year%2C%20D.C.%20police%20records%20show.