Can we lose that "Outside Dining" that takes up all the parking area across the district?!

Submitted by eablacksmith t3_z1yeer in washingtondc

This is a vent/rant.
Not DC Native, but raised in Silver Spring. (This rant can apply to SS too)

Two years ago the outside dining was necessary, the following year, a novelty. Today, It's a nuisance.

I went out to the U Street area for the first time in about 5 years and followed that up with a quick trip to Adams Morgan. Typically I metro around the city when its for play, but this time around I got to ride in a car.

THE PARKING!!! wtf.

Nightlife spots have always been bad, especially Adams Morgan near that McDonalds on the corner, but with these barriers in Adams Morgan taking up half of an already narrow road along with a new kind of "drunk wanderer" straight up baffle me. Not to mention the drivers that think that street is a great place to put on hazards to pick up an order for delivery or a passenger for uber.

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I'm looking at you Georgetown, U Street, Adams Morgan!

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I've read a story a few months back about a restaurant in SE near nats stadium that was forced to shut down street operations and the owner was all sad about it because he was losing his free extension that I guess he felt he had a right to have. Any others that have been shut down or removed?

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pandemictechnologist t1_ixdin83 wrote

The people who live in these neighborhoods overwhelmingly want outdoor dining and less cars. You’re a visitor, please respect their wishes.

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eablacksmith OP t1_ixf1fvn wrote

a very valid point, I overlooked that with my perspective of a tourist/outsider.

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run_eat_rep3at t1_ixdkhvg wrote

In an ideal world, all the on-street parking in these congested areas would be eliminated in favor of more practical uses - dining, parklets, pickup/dropoff zones, bus lanes, bike lanes, etc.

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Brickleberried t1_ixdvr0k wrote

> pickup/dropoff zones

Remove all the parking up and down 14th St. NW and turn it into this. The double parking by Ubers/taxis/Lyfts/everyone just waiting is unacceptable.

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Gumburcules t1_ixhpcxb wrote

Agreed.

In my fantasy world we remove all the parking meters on busy commercial corridors and replace them with a visible overhead red/green light (like in those parking garages where it tells you where a space is open) with a button. The button turns red to green for 10 minutes, just enough time for a rideshare driver to pick up their passenger or food delivery driver to pick up their order.

Every block gets a tow truck patrol, tow truck sees a red light, your car is gone.

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trash_2008 t1_ixfkve8 wrote

So many restaurants are closing so it would be a waste

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missesT1 t1_ixevgg0 wrote

I enjoy the outdoor dining, but I don’t enjoy the Uber eats/grubhub/ rideshare drivers blocking all the bike lanes. I would also like to see them remove the cut throat parking in these highly congested areas, and figure out better flows.

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Jazz-Cigarettes t1_ixdiq80 wrote

I mean it's really an issue of competing priorities. I get why if you come from an area with lots of free parking available all the time, you might expect it to be available everywhere, even in the heart of a city. But the local residents might not feel the same, and their interests may evolve over time even if there used to be more parking in the past. They might prioritize doing other stuff with the space, and their interests are as valid as yours.

Do you live in the areas you were visiting? If not, it seems kinda lame to feel that you have a right to a bunch of parking spots there when people who live nearby, or have no need for parking/no issue metroing/biking/walking to get around town may prefer more restaurant seating (or whatever else space gets repurposed for) instead. Not everything has to be built to prioritize cars first all the time.

The congestion issues you're talking about or the shitshow in Adams Morgan and the craziness of M St in Georgetown with millions of pedestrians always trying to get around, those seem like different issues if you ask me. Those places probably shouldn't be car thoroughfares to begin with, they're an absolute nightmare to navigate even before extra restaurant tables were ever brought into the picture.

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9throwawayDERP t1_ixdwcrj wrote

Honestly M St in Georgetown and most of Adams Morgan should be shut down to all non-resident cars period.

They were made without a car in mind and should remain that way.

BTW, M and 18th have never not been a shitshow...

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dry_zooplankton t1_ixel05t wrote

My very specific transit fantasy is closing the Georgetown part of M st to all car traffic, putting a streetcar down the middle, and expanding the sidewalks

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VulcanVulcanVulcan t1_ixo8z42 wrote

The sidewalks in Georgetown are hilariously narrow for such a busy area on the weekends. It would be easy to simply eliminate some of the driving lanes or street parking, but then people driving to Virginia via the bridge would get mad.

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giscard78 t1_ixefmlz wrote

> Those places probably shouldn't be car thoroughfares to begin with, they're an absolute nightmare to navigate even before extra restaurant tables were ever brought into the picture.

Extremely few people can park street side in any given area. I have never understood people who go to M Street, U Street, 14th Street or any of these major areas and plan on street parking. It seems so unreliable. It seems like a no-brainer to prioritize people enjoying the space, whether that be for increased sidewalk widths, streateries, or mini-parklets.

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MammothBobcat251 t1_ixerypd wrote

Especially going to U st to party all night and then drive home under the influence. The locals that don’t have off street parking get their property destroyed by these folks and I wish they would crack down on it.

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eablacksmith OP t1_ixf02z7 wrote

I agree, I believe Adams Morgan should get the Ellsworth treatment.

Shut it down to traffic, turn it into a promenade.

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soccerman55 t1_ixg2cb9 wrote

The Admo BID and Nadaeu are working to do that. I know there have been a number of hold ups (not sure on what) but hopefully it happens.

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Competitive-Sun9582 t1_ixdhsab wrote

I'd much rather have outdoor dining then parking spots. In fact, we should expand outdoor dining even more.

The less parking the better.

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Macrophage87 t1_ixdgzra wrote

Because everyone wants to lose capacity for dining just so a handful more people from the suburbs who couldn't be bothered to take the metro can come in.

Many of those areas would probably benefit from disallowing car traffic entirely during the weekends. Adam's Morgan even tried, but wasn't allowed to do so.

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MrSmithGoes2DC t1_ixdjmqy wrote

No. Parking sucks ass and outdoor dining is a better use of the space. Take the Metro like a normal person.

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corndogblaster t1_ixdma7v wrote

Lol the majority of the DMV drives. So “normal” doesn’t really apply.

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afrosamuraiprincess t1_ixdofyb wrote

We aren't talking about "the DMV" - we're talking about DC residents. specifically the ones who live in and frequent those neighborhoods.

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MrSmithGoes2DC t1_ixdqubn wrote

Exactly. I live in Silver Spring and almost exclusively take the Metro into DC when I'm going to be social in a neighborhood.

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trash_2008 t1_ixfle79 wrote

So maybe they should stop giving out DC plates

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afrosamuraiprincess t1_ixhm0mj wrote

What do you mean?

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trash_2008 t1_iximqbe wrote

I’m tired of hearing people complain about DC being a city so everyone should walk, yet half the drivers are dc residents

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NorseTikiBar t1_ixdmkhr wrote

Cities are for people, not for cars.

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[deleted] t1_ixerno0 wrote

[deleted]

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NorseTikiBar t1_ixesb4l wrote

Uh huh. That is definitely something you've seen because it's so commonplace. Sure.

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[deleted] t1_ixey92c wrote

[deleted]

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Here4thebeer3232 t1_ixg8kl7 wrote

You're statistically more likely to be seriously injured or killed while driving. But hey, what do statistics know

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AGR_51A004M t1_ixeef89 wrote

Sure, because cars drive themselves around for fun.

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Fuzzy_Win8285 t1_ixehmd0 wrote

The point is that the way we build cities reflects our priorities and values. If you begin with the premise that everyone will have a car and use it as their primary means of transportation, then you end up with a city that is very different (in my view worse) than if you begin with the premise that cities should be enjoyable for the people who live and work in them, and navigable without the use of a car.

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keyjan t1_ixdlhfg wrote

No. It’s great. (I mean, kinda chilly at the moment, but great in season. )

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Gforce182 t1_ixe5846 wrote

Boo, bad rant

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eablacksmith OP t1_ixf1b5o wrote

I don't complain much, I'll make my next rant better. <3

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demize1234 t1_ixe4ze2 wrote

sounds good to me, the less parking the better. take the metro next time.

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parahzer t1_ixdw1qv wrote

Take the metro dude.

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trash_2008 t1_ixflq18 wrote

Yellow line is out until March - which was the fastest way for me into the city.

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eablacksmith OP t1_ixf2pm6 wrote

I personally take the metro into the city, I'll do bike deliveries off a capital bikeshare for a few hours and take the train back, literally a decompression trip after visiting the hustle.

when gas was getting ridiculous, I started buying a weekly bus pass to drop the commute, period.

I Suggested parking the car at friendship heights and taking the red line in, she didn't feel safe doing so and was worried about not catching the last train in time. which is an issue I completely understand.

also, I wasn't driving.... this rant is from the perspective of a passenger who never drives into the city past Petworth/Columbia Heights'ish.

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Brake_L8 t1_ixdo8aq wrote

I love cars. Huge enthusiast. Love the act and art of driving.

I'm a huge fan of these "streeteries" or whatever we're calling them. Love good food and love having more outdoor space to enjoy dining with friends.

Georgetown, U Street, and AdMo have historically been complete disasters to drive through anyway, with parking a trainwreck even before some spots were taken by outdoor dining areas. Parking on U Street during the day for various errands has been fine for me, and if I'm going out at night I'd rather Metro or use rideshare for both convenience and safety if I end up having a few drinks.

I'd be fine with outdoor dining spaces and the rest of these little areas reserved for delivery drivers and ride share to pull in.

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Mindless-Employment t1_ixdyebf wrote

>I've read a story a few months back about a restaurant in SE near nats stadium that was forced to shut down street operations and the owner was all sad about it because he was losing his free extension that I guess he felt he had a right to have.

Not much different from people being all sad about losing the parking that I guess they feel they have a right to have.

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newsiesunited t1_ixewvmo wrote

I read that part and became convinced this is parody. It must be mocking the car-brain lack of self awareness, right??

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[deleted] t1_ixdka5r wrote

[deleted]

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9throwawayDERP t1_ixdwi8q wrote

If restaurants aren't using it, it should just be made into more pedestrian space. The sidewalks in Georgetown and Adams Morgan have so many more people using them than a parking spot.

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RemySchnauzer t1_ixe1fzy wrote

I feel like this was the norm even before outdoor dining? I moved out of the area in 2020, but when I would come into DC from Arlington I almost never planned to park unless it was an area where I knew had readily available parking. Otherwise uber or take metro. DC is not known for available/affordable parking for visitors.

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keyjan t1_ixe8jti wrote

I never park on the street. Every big building has multiple hundred spaces beneath it; expensive, but at least my car will be there when I get back to it.

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lmurp t1_ixegzit wrote

Nah.

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KevinKlaes t1_ixfagxr wrote

Imagine that. A city for people and not the cars.

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GenericReditAccount t1_ixdq25j wrote

I disagree, but have been thinking about it recently as well.

I assume there’s an application and fee associated with restaurants using these extensions. If that’s the case, if the fee is adequate, and the neighborhood still likes them, then great. 🤷‍♂️

I guess the question is, in a non-pandemic world, how much public space should be given to private companies, and under what conditions? Is the fact that a significant portion of tax payers seem to like them, enough to keep the program? Should that public space be given back to general use, now that the pandemic is “over”? Are commercial property owners paying taxes on the extra land that has basically become an extension of their building?

I’d personally prefer this over car parking, but I think the question is valid.

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PalpitationNo3106 t1_ixean13 wrote

Perhaps. But the District also makes a lot of money off taxes from restaurants and bars. A parking space on 18th street generates $2.30/hour for 11.5 hours a day, six days a week. That’s $158.70 a week. Of course there is some overlap, it’s not exact metering, as well as some empty time. Let’s call it $200/week. Now you put four two tops in that space. Much of the day they are empty, of course, but after five you serve ten people. And on Thursday-Sunday you serve twenty people a day. That’s 100 people. Each person spends $25. That’s $2500 in revenue. And $250 in sales tax, from that same space.

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Appropriate-Bed-8413 t1_ixen15x wrote

Storage for private automobiles is an absolutely horrific use of public space. Encourages congestion. Brings in pollution. Requires maintenance with more road traffic. Crates more impermeable surface area. Requires enforcement. Brings in very little revenue.

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GenericReditAccount t1_ixeop2l wrote

I agree! I happen to enjoy the streeteries and utilize them often. It’s an interesting conversation regardless.

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hexesforurexes t1_ixdwlhx wrote

The pandemic isn’t over and people who are immunocompromised, keeping others in their community safe, or just don’t want to risk COVID deserve space to recreate outside of their homes safely. Get on the metro or don’t come to the city. We won’t miss you 🤷🏻

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SaltyLobbyist t1_ixfrhjb wrote

If you want to limit DC to DC car-less residents only, these establishments you enjoy visiting will no longer exist. Like it or not, the DC economy depends on people traveling in from Virginia, Maryland and beyond to be what it is. You would definitely miss them.

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boots_with_the_furr t1_ixftr5l wrote

Take the metro, Uber or walk. Easy solution. Nobody wants Maryland drivers on our streets

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MCStarlight t1_ixehxoq wrote

Why aren't you writing to the city instead of posting on here to people who have nothing to do with city ordinances?

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eablacksmith OP t1_ixf0yae wrote

how would one do so?
is it as simple as shooting an email, or looking up public hearings?

I can't say I've ever reached out to any sort of legislature or government entity to complain about anything.

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Too_LeDip_To_Quit t1_ixfi0td wrote

A few years ago, I made the mental switch to look for paid, garage parking as my first choice option when driving somewhere. No more circling the block looking for a spot.

Highly recommended. I never looked back.

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pomegranatecloud t1_ixfrjvx wrote

No, outside dining is great and it should be expanded more. It’s a much better use of the space than for parking. I say that as a resident who actually lives in one of those areas and also owns a car.

If you have an issue with hauling your car in from the burbs and finding street parking, take public transportation or pay to park in a garage instead of complaining about outdoor dining. Or just stay in the burbs.

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SavoryRhubarb t1_ixfhyib wrote

I’m not opposed to the outside seating, but 5-10 years ago, on-street eating was unheard of because of the threat of attacks using vehicles. That threat didn’t disappear because of the pandemic.

This is an incredibly dangerous practice without hard separation between the diners and the vehicles like bollards or heavy Jersey barriers. Shit, even a distracted driver or a medical emergency could easily end in tragedy.

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c0dyb t1_ixfsdhp wrote

your allowed your opinion, but its wrong, the last thing we need is more cars

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Brunch_Enthusiast69 t1_ixg3vx3 wrote

Block off the street completely Adams Morgan, then no need to worry about parking

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Chocolatecitygirl82 t1_ixg7g04 wrote

I agree that, as someone with a car, it’s very inconvenient. However, these areas aren’t trying to cater to people with cars at this point. They’re trying to encourage public transit, walking, etc. It’s cool but I’m not interested in driving in circles for an hour so I don’t go into the city. I barely even go into Arlington and Alexandria. I moved out to Fairfax and there are more than enough restaurants, etc. further in NOVA to keep me occupied. I’m not about to stress myself out over parking. Highly suggest anyone else who hates the parking issues does the same.

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MoreCleverUserName t1_ixknn8d wrote

You’d last about one day in London, where it costs £30 a day just to drive in the central business district. Not park — that’s extra— it’s £30 to drive around town.

> I've read a story a few months back about a restaurant in SE near nats stadium that was forced to shut down street operations and the owner was all sad about it because he was losing his free extension that I guess he felt he had a right to have. Any others that have been shut down or removed?

This was a bar (Walter’s) that had been lucky to survive the pandemic and had done a huge service to the neighborhood by becoming a pop up grocery store during the early days of the pandemic lockdowns. There was no grocery in the neighborhood at the time. This owner did everything the city asked to get their streatery set up and had been operating it for over a year, when the city gave three days notice of required removal during Nats games, just a few days before the season. For a sports bar across the street from the ballpark in the weeks when fans were first allowed back into the ballpark, this was a devastating blow, especially on such short notice. Your shitty, snarky attitude is duly noted, but from my point of view, that bar has a thousand times more right to the space in the street than an out-of-city bar hopper who comes into town every now and then.

Fortunately, Walters and their neighbor Mission were able to reach a compromise with the city and I hope their streateries continue to prosper.

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bigatrop t1_ixh5orv wrote

Strongly disagree with this rant. The outdoor dining is the best thing to happen from Covid. I hope they add more of it throughout the city and close down streets during weekend evenings to be more pedestrian friendly.

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ooyat t1_ixh99yn wrote

No. Take the Metro as you usually do.

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BoozAlien t1_ixhqkef wrote

I'm fine with the streateries where they don't inhibit pedestrian/cyclist/motorist safety, but maybe we can focus on making them not look like a third world shantytown at this point.

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VulcanVulcanVulcan t1_ixo8l1a wrote

I’d rather not. Free parking is a huge giveaway to car drivers who aren’t paying for it. We get more dining options and space. DC should be doing a lot more to discouraging driving in and through DC in order to meet climate change and air pollution goals, starting with congestion pricing and charging a lot more for residential parking.

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PolymathEquation t1_ixrz996 wrote

Person not from D.C. complains about D.C. not being convenient enough for them.

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ArmAromatic6461 t1_ixg4ong wrote

You are about get absolutely roasted in the replies by the all the car hating hipsters.

But you’re 100% right, and they’re mostly virtue signaling.

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MarinaPinotLover t1_ixf63be wrote

I have turned against the streeteries for two reasons. 1; So many of them haven't been used since covid restrictions were lifted, and 2; they extend way further out than a normal parked car would.

I drive down O St and Maxwell Park's outdoor area (which from what I've seen has been vacant since restrictions lifted) basically makes it a one way street. Drivers here are terrible and aggressive and these unused areas seem like a recipe for side-swiping.

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daytrade106 t1_ixdmrtb wrote

Screw the parking issues it’s a safety hazard , you know how many DUIs must run into these things

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NoDesinformatziya t1_ixdq9tp wrote

"Don't let pedestrians ever cross streets -- do you know how many DUIs must run into these things?"

"Don't have stoplights or stop signs -- do you know how many DUIs must run through these things?"

"Don't have lanes on roads -- do you know how many DUIs must weave between these?"

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corndogblaster t1_ixdn87d wrote

Unfortunately you’re not gonna get sympathy on this sub because it’s overwhelmingly anti-car. I think outdoor seating is nice during the summer but I agree the parking situation sucks now. A lot of places don’t need the extra space anymore since covid restrictions have been lifted, in fact most of the outdoor spaces are completely empty during the winter, but that doesn’t mean people will support removing them due to some weird attitude of “fuck cars and drivers”.

I think there’s a balance where we can have areas that are relatively car free but also not punish drivers for wanting to use their vehicle. Ug

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Potential-Calendar t1_ixezwld wrote

Not reserving 300 square feet of public space for your car is punishing drivers? No need to respond, just know you’re not going to have much success convincing people of that in this city.

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corndogblaster t1_ixdn96o wrote

Unfortunately you’re not gonna get sympathy on this sub because it’s overwhelmingly anti-car. I think outdoor seating is nice during the summer but I agree the parking situation sucks now. A lot of places don’t need the extra space anymore since covid restrictions have been lifted, in fact most of the outdoor spaces are completely empty during the winter, but that doesn’t mean people will support removing them due to some weird attitude of “fuck cars and drivers”.

I think there’s a balance where we can have areas that are relatively car free but also not punish drivers for wanting to use their vehicle.

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