Submitted by monkeyuprising t3_z1wi6m in washingtondc
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixd60db wrote
Do they understand the irony of a bunch of upper middle class white people riding down a protected bike lane during an event approved by the city while claiming no one cares about them? Very "progressive" of them to ask for more funding for a bike system about 5% of residents use who are disproportionately wealthy.
Macrophage87 t1_ixd7fy1 wrote
Only about a third of DC residents drive daily. Over a third don't even own a car. There's no way that the two-thirds of DC residents that don't drive daily are "upper middle class". Walking and biking is a transportation method for people of all income levels in DC. We can either prioritize walking, biking, and transit for the 2/3 of residents that rely on it, or the small majority of residents that drive.
https://dcist.com/story/14/01/21/over-37-percent-of-dc-households-do/
gator_fl t1_ixdjmmm wrote
RIP to Langenkamp and I'm a big supporter of buses/trains/bikes.
But the DC Fiscal Policy Center did analysis and its deceptiveto say "...biking is a transportation method for people of all income levels in DC".
>"When it comes to public transportation, whites more frequently take the Metro; blacks more frequently take the bus. Only 5,765 black of African American residents walked to work in 2015, compared to 29,000 whites. Only about 1,900 black or African American residents biked to work; this is one fifth the frequency among whites."
Macrophage87 t1_ixdlfhm wrote
Much of that can be attributed due to the poor transit and bike/ped accessibility east of the anacostia river. Ward 8 has half the traffic deaths for DC. These people absolutely should have good transit and bike accesibility, but keep voting for people who don't want that.
gator_fl t1_ixe58ds wrote
Good points!
But it also is cultural. Cannot just say "make better bike transit options and they will come" or "get rid of so-and-so who blocks transit options".
DDoT and other agencies know that and are not investing in changing mindsets.
Hopefully a mindshift will take place. Orgs like WABA try but still hard to change peoples habits and opinions.
Until then, all these beautiful bike lanes and such will not be used by those who think it's silly to bike.
veloharris t1_ixe3ndm wrote
The infrastructure isn't to a level that it's a viable alternative for many. It's a chicken and egg thing.
gator_fl t1_ixe5x7r wrote
It's a cultural mindshift thing as well.
Lots of bike lanes have been developed (happy to see it) but some people don't take advantage of it...hence the inequity in infrastructure development.
Wish it wasn't the case, but it is an issue.
throws_rocks_at_cars t1_ixeducy wrote
More people would use bike lanes if they didn’t have to be an adrenaline junkie with a deathwish to use them.
You ever visit the belt line in Atlanta? I’ve never seen so many pregnant mothers and children on bicycles. That’s because THEY DONT NEED TO INTERACT WITH CARS. I bet most of the car tards here would be against that too.
veloharris t1_ixe6ns0 wrote
Bike modal use in DC has one of the highest year over year growth rates in the nation. However our network is still fairly incomplete, yet with every new part of the network usage increases.
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixd8wyd wrote
So put that money towards buses and trains that actually take people to work. No more money for rich hobbyists.
ertri t1_ixdek11 wrote
Ah yes, the rich hobbyists paying $95/yr for a capital bikeshare unlimited subscription. (Or just paying the $1-2 a ride)
Macrophage87 t1_ixdgd5e wrote
Or the low income people paying $5.
ertri t1_ixfmozd wrote
What do you mean?
Macrophage87 t1_ixgl1dn wrote
ertri t1_ixh8d5v wrote
Woah that’s cool
SgtPeppy t1_ixdl1vf wrote
It's so obvious you have absolutely zero clue what you're talking about. No idea about the economy of cycling. About why people might choose to do so over other options.
You should be promoting cycling along with buses and trains, if you're actually arguing in good faith about improved public transit. Why you've decided to die on this hill, I will never know.
saucity t1_ixidhv6 wrote
They've been calling me a terrible person for asking about driving to DC, when I live in West Virginia, with ZERO infrastructure and no reliable public transport. What am I supposed to do... Cycle to DC from West Virgina, with a crippling disability...? 😂
They're obviously very privileged, full of hate, and they could have chosen kind words to get their point across, but instead, just woke up and chose violence, lol.
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixdmkmm wrote
Because we have hundreds of miles of bike lanes and nobody uses them. Its very important for rich folks to show how green and cool they are on their bikes. I could care less about the image the Bethesda crowd wants to push. Money needs to go where it will be used. Buses, trains, and cars.
SgtPeppy t1_ixdmsah wrote
> Its very important for rich folks to show how green and cool they are on their bikes
You've been told constantly why this is an incorrect assumption, yet you continue to mindlessly regurgitate it. Eat shit. You're beyond help.
throws_rocks_at_cars t1_ixee340 wrote
>hundreds of miles of bike lanes
Oh my god literally every single square inch of public space in the city was for cars and you’re mad. Also “hundreds” implies at LEAST 200 and were just barely over 100. Youre so full of shit.
Nilay431 t1_ixd7db0 wrote
I got hit by a car making an illegal u turn on a “protected” center bike lane while biking. I drive to work from DC to MD everyday but I completely support things like this. Drivers in DC are stupidly aggressive towards cyclists for some reason.
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixd8hc2 wrote
Cyclists are stupid aggressive towards everyone else.
Nilay431 t1_ixd8xmh wrote
Until we have ghost car memorials because drivers are dying when cyclists crash in to them, I am ok with the guy on a 15lbs of metal being aggressive.
MrDickford t1_ixec4uv wrote
This is such a weird argument. It doesn’t have to be either-or, we can say that aggressive and reckless drivers are a problem in DC and also that bikers frequently act entitled to do whatever they please.
But whenever someone argues the latter, bike advocates show up in droves to explain that it’s ok for bikers to be jerks because cars pose a danger to bikers.
bageloclock t1_ixfaj5h wrote
No. There is not a both sides argument here. One person drives a multi-ton death trap while the other is on a bike. When you’re operating the multi-ton death trap, it’s on YOU to exert extra caution.
MrDickford t1_ixfev7f wrote
Yeah thanks that’s an excellent example of exactly the sort of absurd behavior that I complained about in my post.
bageloclock t1_ixhwf38 wrote
I’m not even erasing the notion that there are bad cyclists out there but car drivers and vehicles have an insanely outsized impact if they are the reckless ones. How can you see these things as 1:1?
MrDickford t1_ixi2nbc wrote
I don’t think I ever implied they were 1:1. Aggressive drivers are obviously a much bigger problem than aggressive bikers. But you can’t mention aggressive and/or entitled bikers without someone from the biker community showing up to retort that cars are more dangerous to bikers, which implies either than only one of those things can be true, or that it’s ok for bikers to do whatever they want because cars are dangerous.
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixd9c3d wrote
About 5 cyclists die in DC every year. That is tragic. But the same people so concerned about that seem to not care at all that homicides have nearly tripled to 200 per year. But you know 5 dead rich white folks matter a lot more than 200 people of color.
SgtPeppy t1_ixdlike wrote
> But the same people so concerned about that seem to not care at all that homicides have nearly tripled to 200 per year
Literally how the fuck do you know? Most people in DC are very concerned about this - why wouldn't cyclists be? You know it's possible to care about more than one thing at a time?
It's also a complex, multifaceted issue - crime is rising everywhere and despite what politicians and most people will tell you, the a lot of the mechanisms behind it are poorly understood (or we just lack the political will to address it, as with gun control)
It's a complete apples and oranges comparison. You're looking for reasons to be outraged at cyclists. It's pathetic.
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixdm5yw wrote
OK what are the ideas to lower gun violence then?
SgtPeppy t1_ixdmm3j wrote
Why should I entertain you attempting to pivot the conversation? Don't change the subject because you're losing.
ottereatingpopsicles t1_ixdm7ti wrote
I mean I think people do care about homicide deaths as much or more than biking deaths, but the policies to keep bikers alive (build protected bike lanes, require side guards on trucks so bikers and pedestrians get pushed out of the way, actual criminal consequences for truck drivers that kill people) are much clearer than how to decrease gun violence. Violence prevention is a much trickier issue to address while we already know how to protect bikers and pedestrians more effectively. Drivers just don’t like to drive a safe speed and be forced to share the road with other users or lose the taxpayer-sponsored parking spaces
CatoTheDumber t1_ixewkc6 wrote
This dude here trying to argue by starting a completely different conversation.
distraughtdrunk t1_ixdc7fn wrote
ngl, i wonder how many injuries/deaths are caused by aggressive cycling or the cyclists breaking the law.
ofc, this doesn't count the drivers who are weirdly aggressive too, but it seems all too easy to lay all the blame on big bad drivers without examing what cyclists are doing as well (such as blowing through stop lights, texting/cycling, swerving into traffic unexpectedly).
edit: when i say injuries/ deaths are caused by aggressive cycling, i mean a cyclist places themselves (unintentionally or otherwise) in a position where they get hurt/killed.
ertri t1_ixdefef wrote
Usually 1-3 people die, nationally, after being hit by a bike each year. That's obviously not 0, but... not bad.
Having been hit by people on bikes a few times - I'll take my chances with a 20ish lbs metal frame where the rider is likely to be worse off than whatever they hit v. a 4000 lbs tank
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixdkqiq wrote
The problem is rarely that a bike is hitting someone and killing them. Its that they drive illegally and cause cars to swerve, or pedestrians to jump out of the way (sometimes into something else), etc....
There is ZERO enforcement of bike laws. You can ride through U St drunk as a skunk through red lights and the police will do nothing. In fact I see it all the time.
ertri t1_ixfmnqk wrote
Again, the consequences of biking dangerously are much lower!
I literally do not care about cars being inconvenienced. They can slow down and stay back, I truly do not care.
Pedestrians, yeah, that should be enforced. I'll start with MPD doing literally anything to enforce any traffic laws in general, bikes can be first I don't care.
distraughtdrunk t1_ixdfxek wrote
i'm not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't actually speak to the question i asked.
edit: i reread my post and thought it sounded ambiguous so i edited it
veloharris t1_ixe3h9r wrote
People are stupid aggressive. Cyclists are not some separate species. Assholes drive cars and some ride bikes.
throws_rocks_at_cars t1_ixed1ut wrote
Observably false
NMS-KTG t1_ixd7o33 wrote
Ah yes. Rich people ride $200 bikes while the working class uses their $20,000 cars. When will we stop catering to the rich!
tcairlines t1_ixdu9w0 wrote
$200 bike? Where you see $200 bike in that photo????
N3rdr4g3 t1_ixe8ywe wrote
Change $200 to $2000 and the argument still applies
MrDickford t1_ixejnj5 wrote
If biking is the cheaper option, why don’t we see people whose primarily constraining factor is money already overwhelmingly choosing to bike instead of drive?
ehtooh t1_ixesbak wrote
Because it’s not safe to do so. I don’t have a car and I won’t bike because I am terrified of being run over. But this is bigger than wanting bike lanes, this is about wanting our kids to be safe walking to school, and our friends safe biking from it. Why is that so hard to understand?
MrDickford t1_ixf4ax6 wrote
People sacrifice safety to save money all the time. But for many people, a bike doesn’t do everything they need it to. If you need to go long distances, leave the city, move a family, or carry a load, then you probably need a car, and a bike just becomes something you need to buy in addition to a car.
Very few people, especially on this forum, just don’t understand the importance of keeping pedestrians and bikers safe. But investing in public transportation seems like a much more effective solution. Prescribing bikes and more bike lanes as the blanket transportation solution for everybody makes it sound like you either don’t understand that not everybody’s needs mirror yours, or that you don’t care about those people.
Appropriate-Ad-4148 t1_ixe1yq8 wrote
Housing analogy:
Housing is expensive!
We better encourage more home sales and bail out everyone with a mortgage(practically a 1:1 correlation with the top 50% of wealth in the US) because renters aren’t real Americans with families!
NMS-KTG t1_ixe29rh wrote
I don't understand what you're trying to say lol
Appropriate-Ad-4148 t1_ixe2opx wrote
Just that the criticisms are rooted in classism and ignorance.
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixd8mv2 wrote
Ahh yes the famous working class bike route from Bethesda to downtown.
NightWaddie t1_ixdegr1 wrote
This isn’t a class based issue as much as it’s people saying they are tired of a car dominated culture, I don’t know how you don’t see that
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixdl3rt wrote
Tired of car dominated culture? You are far too online. Normal folks love that a car takes you exactly from point A to point B in air conditioning privately. That's just objectively more comfortable than using a bike or public transit for most trips.
Even these advocates only do so as a hobby. 90%+ I can guarantee have vehicles they use daily.
NMS-KTG t1_ixdn3wn wrote
They only do so as a hobby because it's unsafe to do so otherwise... which is why they're protesting
NightWaddie t1_ixdr5n9 wrote
Congrats to you and your “normal folks.” But most of us in D.C actually don’t want to drive in traffic everywhere and would be perfectly happy to walk, bike or take the train if it was safe and reliable. Hence why people are doing movements like this.
zwiazekrowerzystow t1_ixesqfg wrote
My car sits in front of my house 95% of the time.
NMS-KTG t1_ixdg5ef wrote
Would you prefer they drive a $30,000 truck?
ottereatingpopsicles t1_ixd6chk wrote
Most of the ride from Bethesda to the Capitol, including the road where the organizers wife died, did not have a bike lane. There were only bike lanes once we were in the last mile
tomas_shugar t1_ixdgjkr wrote
These people don't actually care. They're just pathetic little children who are so upset that people ride bikes they want to murder them.
They aren't worth our time, they're just shitty, evil people. It's really not complicated.
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixdlpk7 wrote
Its very telling when people refuse to debate on policy and resort to angry ad hominem attacks. You would think having your hypocrisy exposed would be a moment of reflection, but it appears to generally result in lashing out in anger.
I find this especially true of activist circles like this one where the person has tied their identity to the current issue.
tomas_shugar t1_ixdu5d7 wrote
You're not debating policy, it is fucking laughable you think that's what you've done.
Child, go home and get your diaper changed.
Macrophage87 t1_ixdgnow wrote
Actually, the place she died did have a bike lane, it was just so poorly designed that it would be safer if she went without one.
ottereatingpopsicles t1_ixdknb7 wrote
Oh for real? What was the actual place? I didn’t see any bike lanes on the route while we were in MD
Macrophage87 t1_ixdm8kl wrote
5244 MD-190 https://maps.app.goo.gl/YTo92zEV8327MtMj7
You can even see the ghost bike in Google Streetview.
Katsuichi t1_ixdenzd wrote
you’re saying socio-economic status should determine peoples rights, yeah?
throws_rocks_at_cars t1_ixedlb1 wrote
>upper middle class white people
My transportation: a $900 bicycle
Your transportation: a $20,000+ automobile that requires yearly registration, insurance, maintenance, parking.
Call me when bike parking in DC is $65k a year.
Zillow -> for sale -> less than: $100,000
And you call me middle class? Bitch I’m in my early twenties and deal with cockroaches.
veloharris t1_ixe3cl9 wrote
Bike infrastructure is not a white people thing. Good infrastructure is used by all.
throws_rocks_at_cars t1_ixed0jk wrote
Bro I just don’t want to die gruesomely cuz someone was texting and driving.
bageloclock t1_ixfacmp wrote
Black Washingtonians are cyclists too. Are you really this fucking dense?
NorseTikiBar t1_ixeufex wrote
I feel like I generally see more far people of color riding bikes than white people (or at least a 50-50 mix) in my everyday life getting around DC, so it's always bizarre to me for someone to claim that it's primarily a white person activity.
Says more about what neighborhood you live in than it does biking itself, tbh.
polar_rabbit t1_ixd6l9w wrote
Here we go again with the racism
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixd8qu1 wrote
First they came for the consulting firm bros and I said nothing....
9throwawayDERP t1_ixdfh3h wrote
yeah, let us be ok with a mother of two being killed on her way home after they were evacuated from kiev.
aoc_desantis_2024 t1_ixdlufp wrote
200 people of color gunned down last year. None of these people care about that do they. Lets tell their stories.
crabmusic t1_ixdy7ef wrote
This might blow your mind, but it’s possible to care about multiple causes at once 🤯
NorseTikiBar t1_ixeumd8 wrote
Well, why don't you start? It would certainly be a nice change of pace from your other topic submissions, which are apparently exclusively testing if you've said something offensive enough to be shadow-banned.
Mjt8 t1_ixdlv5b wrote
You’re making a straw man. Nobody is saying they’re morally “ok” with it. It’s a question of what the city can/should do about it.
Governments can sometimes solve systemic issues but they’re not well suited for preventing individual wrongs.
Should the city grind to a halt to totally redo its infrastructure, spending half its revenue fixing 5 annual deaths, and hundreds of thousands of commuters? That doesn’t seem like good policy.
9throwawayDERP t1_ixdokjp wrote
uh, in ward 3 and Bethesda (where 90% of this bike ride was), car crashes are 5 times more likely to kill residents than homicides. i'm confused, there is pretty much nothing else that is dangerous in that part of town. cars are the only danger to pedestrians or residents.
as for infrastructure, a bit of paint and plastic bollards are nothing for a city that wastes millions or corruption.
Appropriate-Ad-4148 t1_ixe2d0a wrote
World class cities who have done “shining examples” of every fix you could be talking about don’t “grind to a halt.”
9throwawayDERP t1_ixe2jfy wrote
yeah, barcelona and paris are two good examples.
Mjt8 t1_ixg39d8 wrote
Lol, and you think it just takes a snap if the fingers to change the city into Barcelona?
Appropriate-Ad-4148 t1_ixgx985 wrote
I have seen a lot of plans and bid on road projects in DC with dedicated bike lanes.
Bike infrastructure isn't' expensive. The real issue is political and industry will.
From the top to the bottom, American planners, owners, architects, and contractors tend to be people who have never left the suburbs in their life.
Mjt8 t1_ixg43r5 wrote
Selective and misleading stat. A whopping three bicyclists were killed by cars in DC in 2021.
Also, the lady hit was in a bike lane. The whole issue here is that paint and plaster doesn’t fix the issue. You need well-engineered bike infrastructure like you see in Europe, but it would be exorbitantly expensive and disruptive to remake the city’s transportation landscape at this point.
[deleted] t1_ixdih5i wrote
[deleted]
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