Comments
dexter_ay t1_ja72y9f wrote
to the worst.
That somebody feared to complete the sentence.
akkelerate t1_ja9zfz4 wrote
China is both the largest coal power plant builder but also the largest renewable power investor.
In fact from 2020-2025, China’s renewable power mix is projected to grow from 28.5% to 36%, which exceeds their target of 33%.
flamehead2k1 t1_jaagead wrote
Increasing the percentage of renewables is great but it isn't enough considering China is focused on high GDP growth.
If the economy grows so fast that they still need to add massive amounts of coal to meet their goals, we're still fucked.
[deleted] t1_ja8b42n wrote
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[deleted] t1_ja8b4s4 wrote
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SuspiciousStable9649 t1_ja7sxum wrote
I wish we’d of just let them do solar panels. That fiasco set the world back a couple of years.
AtomicTardigrade t1_ja7c4ba wrote
But something needs to charge all those highly ecological zero emission EV's...
Runaround46 t1_ja7jxc7 wrote
50 gigawatts. Fucking 50.
We have a 1.8 gigawatt coal plant here that takes up 1,400 acres.
The scale on this is insane
spaceagefox t1_ja85r3d wrote
China really wants a silent hills vibe with all that pollution
[deleted] t1_ja9068a wrote
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keithps t1_jaa7yfa wrote
Roughly each gigawatt will consume ~10,000tons of coal each day. That's 500,000 tons of coal PER DAY. And I'm supposed to change my life to help the environment.
Runaround46 t1_jaa8yea wrote
Oh dude your not supposed to change shit.
Somehow the companies that pollute shit convinced the public that they need be responsible.
It was a time where a company or corporation had a responsibility to the public to recycle the items that they produced. Or invest in facilities for the recycling.
Companies and governments (see military) are the massive users of energy and polluters of the environment.
Fuck big pickup trucks on the roads though. Our shit wasn't designed for that. Better save it for the rare people using it in professional use.
What we should be doing is driving economy vehicles but then have off-roaders or drag cars or something.
Or just not even have personal vehicles. Use trains and streetcars to get around walkable towns. Then have faster trains for transport in-between cities.
There was a point in time in this country you could get from NYC to like Ohio by streetcar alone.
flamehead2k1 t1_jaajmin wrote
>Oh dude your not supposed to change shit.
. . . >What we should be doing is driving economy vehicles but then have off-roaders or drag cars or something. > >Or just not even have personal vehicles. Use trains and streetcars to get around walkable towns. Then have faster trains for transport in-between cities.
This is a pretty big change for most Americans
EvaB999 t1_jabtho0 wrote
Seriously
grchelp2018 t1_ja8tmor wrote
Manufacturing + a billion people will do that.
[deleted] t1_jaacm8g wrote
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OldMork t1_ja74jk0 wrote
ditching my plastic straw feels so worth now
king-of-boom t1_ja7f30f wrote
You're gonna drink that milkshake through a paper straw and like it!
izit23 t1_ja7tphm wrote
Well this was just green-washing. One does not need straws at all. If people were not buying unnecessary things (like straws) less energy would be needed.
CheifTwit t1_ja89hw7 wrote
China also banned plastic straws.
cosmic_fetus OP t1_ja76re2 wrote
Fatalism ends one way.
DeMalgamnated t1_ja78mms wrote
more coal mine collapses in the future news.
ASoundAssessment t1_ja7nsmo wrote
106 gigawatts would be around 220 new high functioning coal plants.
Or around 350 smaller coal plants depending on the quality of coal and expenditure on plant infrastructure. To put into perspective how much coal is being burned,
To power most of a household's electrical appliances for a year it would take around 4,750 pounds of coal.
Wildercard t1_ja8cxe4 wrote
I am going to ask this in full sincerity.
At what point does "Stop speeding up global warming, you are fucking it up for everyone!" become a valid reason for war?
drogoran t1_ja8v1hl wrote
when a nation does it intentionally and not as a side effect of industrialization
we want to reduce pollution the fastest?
innovate, build and help these nations skip the polluting fuels
no one is gonna volunteer to keep living in mudhuts because upgrading to a modern infrastructure is polluting the air
grchelp2018 t1_ja8sow8 wrote
War ain't going to help the global warming problem. And certainly its not going to happen against a nuclear armed nation.
Wildercard t1_ja8tlq8 wrote
Imagine China doubles their coal usage every fifth year. Seas are rising. Hurricanes are a monthly event. Snow caps, what snow caps? Natural disasters threaten the stability of global shipping, coastal cities can't keep up rising the sea walls, widespread droughts are seen as normal, and there is one player contributing more to this than next ten countries combined.
What year is it acceptable to do more than write a strongly worded letter about knocking off the assault on human's race survival?
grchelp2018 t1_ja8vn3e wrote
If things have already gone so bad, war isn't happening anyway. Everyone will be too busy dealing with their own problems.
The only realistic way out of this is rich western countries subsidizing the poorer ones to switch to cleaner sources.
CluelessTurtle99 t1_ja9exgc wrote
Never. Why ? Just compare the per capita emissions of the US to china. Guess which one is more than double the other
acebandaged t1_ja9lftd wrote
I mean, with that approach there are 15 other countries with higher per cap emissions. This shouldn't be a whatabout issue, this should be a "yes, what china's doing sucks and should stop" issue.
US emissions are also a problem, yes. Now, back to China, which is the topic at hand.
akkelerate t1_ja9xtfq wrote
Well that’s easy. Divide China into 50 countries. Now none of them are anywhere near as polluting. Problem solved.
acebandaged t1_jaaj5t5 wrote
I know everyone says lots of smaller countries are much worse than one big one, but there's definitely a population between 1.5bn and 1 that's more stable than 1.5bn...the point where the power those small nations hold is too small for their inherent instability to matter.
Montenegro isn't going around picking on other nations, while China is happily spying and murdering and threatening and generally having an overall negative impact on the world.
ELVEVERX t1_jaanukj wrote
>while China is happily spying and murdering and threatening and generally having an overall negative impact on the world.
I mean they do less of that shit than the US.
Bakanyanter t1_jaafprv wrote
Never. There are very little excuses for war.
Not to mention China is the leader in green technology as well.
SuspiciousStable9649 t1_ja7sspp wrote
China: I’ve never met a power source I didn’t like.
Gimleteyed t1_ja79eqj wrote
coughs in Australian .....
AltNationReality t1_ja8qvng wrote
So...... climate conference talks were ACTUALLY total bullshit? Shocker.......
drogoran t1_ja8u5ym wrote
china needs power
coal is fast but dirty way to get it
only way that's gonna change is if you help china not need the fast coal power anymore or force them at gunpoint
2-Legit-2-Quip t1_ja7dnow wrote
Can't depend on oil if they go to war with their neighbors in their expansionist conquest
House13Games t1_ja8f7wz wrote
Why the fuck am i drinking a milkshake out of a floppy paper straw???
JustVGames t1_jaaw2yo wrote
So it don’t get stuck in turtles noses. Plastic pollution is a different issue than global warming
Kishu_32 t1_ja9iaps wrote
You ever get a large lemonade at Wendy's, and your paper straw crushes in on itself as soon as it's wet. Inside the gigantic plastic cup and plastic lid? What are we doing
[deleted] t1_ja8xa05 wrote
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autotldr t1_ja729lx wrote
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 68%. (I'm a bot)
> China approved the construction of another 106 gigawatts of coal-fired power capacity last year, four times higher than a year earlier and the highest since 2015, research shows.
> Over the year, 50GW of coal power capacity went into construction across the country - up by more than half compared with the previous year - driven by energy security considerations, the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air and Global Energy Monitor said on Monday.
> The amount of new capacity connected to the grid had slowed in recent years after a decline in new approvals over the 2017-2020 period, but it is set to rebound over the next few years, driven by concerns about power shortages.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: year^#1 power^#2 capacity^#3 construction^#4 last^#5
turbo-unicorn t1_ja86cu6 wrote
No no no no, this is clearly disinformation! We all know Glorious China is bringing about a renewable revolution! /s
Let's ignore the fact that much of the renewables exist only on paper. And much of those that do exist, are incredibly inefficient due to corruption - As long as they're visible and functional, it's all good. And so, they use low quality parts and fake numbers at every level of the manufacturing process.
Shillofnoone t1_ja86e49 wrote
To give a perspective, the number of coal plants that these guys are opening are more than all the coal plants opened by rest of the world. Why aren't they moving to nuclear reactors. They did started making molten thorium reactors. What happened to them
Tagan1 t1_ja8uw5q wrote
I assume those take time to set up and get working. China has a number of large cities that get most of their energy from hydro, but late last year there was a big heat wave that caused lower water flow and affected energy production.
They're probably looking to diversify more and need something quick to set up in the meantime, leading to the larger expansion of coal power. Here's an article touching on the heat wave if you're interested:
grchelp2018 t1_ja8v0q2 wrote
They are building those also. I believe they plan to build 220 odd nuclear plants by 2035.
fastone1911 t1_ja8n2jz wrote
And India is opening 80 new airports in the next 5 years, despite air travel being an environmental nightmare.
Great.
grchelp2018 t1_ja8t7zo wrote
Better to live in the future for 10 years than 50 years in the stone age. Developing nations aren't going to give up quality of life improvements.
fastone1911 t1_ja9bcjz wrote
No one will be living in the future when the entire biosphere collapses and temperatures at 2deg above pre-industrial.
Bakanyanter t1_jaag7ub wrote
So you're asking for developing countries to stop developing? That's dumb, sorry.
fastone1911 t1_jaahqif wrote
I'm simply stating a fact that developing countries developing will doom the world. The US, Europe etc already living with air travel, heating/cooling, cars, meat-rich diets, high-consumption etc has caused this much damage, how do you think the world will fare with 8 billion living at that level? The answer is total systems collapse.
And don't quote the 100 companies statistic, since those companies are what facilitate our lifestyles.
Bakanyanter t1_jaam46e wrote
>I'm simply stating a fact that developing countries developing will doom the world. >The US, Europe etc already living with air travel, heating/cooling, cars, meat-rich diets, high-consumption etc has caused this much damage
The US and Europe live in luxury with air travel, AC everywhere, many cars like you said but even the developing countries have to bear the brunt of climate change as well. So why should only the west live comfortably? Do you think the ozone hole formed in Africa and Antarctica was because of people in Antarctica? Obviously no, countries have had bad environmental effects in other countries since long time now.
>how do you think the world will fare with 8 billion living at that level? The answer is total systems collapse.
I agree, but that doesn't mean we stop uplifting people. It only means that we should experiment and keep researching new technologies that reduce our impact on developing while developing. For example, China is still going to create 300+ nuclear plants, and is the leader in green energy capacity developed per year.
If you are so concerned about development and environment, there is an easy way if you are EU/America. Just reduce your development and go back to 1970s, but obviously they won't reduce airports or their ACs or whatever, they are already used to it.
fastone1911 t1_jaapqam wrote
My entire point is that NO ONE should be living this high consumption lifestyle, but your point is that EVERYONE should.
Your way, everyone dies. My way, everyone lives simpler lives, but at least the biosphere doesn't collapse by 2060.
Also, you don't seem to understand that even green growth is an ecological disaster. There's no point getting emissions to 0 if we've destroyed ecosystems to do it. We've totally overextended in terms of ground water, top soil, fishing stocks, novel entities, land-system change and biochemical flows. These planetary boundaries, if continuously overshot, are enough to destroy us, even if emissions go to zero and atmospheric CO2 goes back to 350ppm.
Bakanyanter t1_jaau1uh wrote
>My entire point is that NO ONE should be living this high consumption lifestyle, but your point is that EVERYONE should.
Then you should complain about the west having X airports already instead of complaining about India building 80 more.
>Your way, everyone dies.
No, maybe we fuck up the environment very badly but we'll find a way to live. We're tenacious fucks.
>Also, you don't seem to understand that even green growth is an ecological disaster.
So you are indeed advocating for developing countries to stop developing. Sorry but not going to happen. Climate change is important but secondary compared to growth.
Obviously you are right in the sense that if tomorrow everyone stops living high maintenance life then the earth would be much better off but developing nations are simply not going to stop developing.
fastone1911 t1_jaazgiy wrote
If you think collapse is secondary to growth your shit is gonna get rocked by the next 20-30 years.
There’s nothing else to say to you.
Good luck.
Bakanyanter t1_jab46h5 wrote
>If you think collapse is secondary to growth your shit is gonna get rocked by the next 20-30 years.
Life in luxury for 30 years is better than shit in 60 years...but I am not pessimistic like you. We figured out Ozone hole and covered it up and recovered it, we will figure out a way to sustain ourselves. My home is almost fully solar powered, my nation is on its way to be carbon neutral by 2070, etc.
fastone1911 t1_jab4sy7 wrote
you're ecologically illiterate
Bakanyanter t1_jabewqc wrote
You're a doomer. You disregard entire humanity's effort and the fact that we have faced multiple crises and have overcame them. You think there is only one solution and that is simply not the truth. We will overcome this as well.
molazcheng t1_ja95ew4 wrote
Here comes Great Leap Forward 2.0 😓
Wade8869 t1_ja8dsro wrote
Taking away gas ranges is going to make a difference...
Mg_Lv t1_jaa304w wrote
Did the hottest summer in majority of China really not convince the top brass, that this mighr not be the best idea... Come on China, feels like any decently educated person would do better at running that country.
NewlyOld31 t1_jaabj9w wrote
This planet is fucked. There's no way we will turn it around.
DaemonAnts t1_ja9dtux wrote
No worries. Canada's carbon tax more than makes up for it. /s
JustVGames t1_jaawa5c wrote
Yet the average Canadian pollutes wayyy more than the average Chinese
Kishu_32 t1_ja9i2xe wrote
Oh thank goodness
Kewenfu t1_jabgsfv wrote
The Chinese will suffer big time from climate changes, maybe moreso than most countries.
[deleted] t1_ja7y7xs wrote
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[deleted] t1_jaaf0fc wrote
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JustVGames t1_jaawity wrote
Everyone mad at China but China uses a lot of this energy to manufacture the shit you buy.
[deleted] t1_jabhry4 wrote
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thermalhugger t1_ja7jegu wrote
Last year China opened 95 new coal fired powerplants and a total of 200 in all of Asia. One new coal plant every other day.
There are 256 in Europe. Even if they are all closed nothing changes.
grchelp2018 t1_ja8thd6 wrote
I mean, there's a couple billion+ people in asia...
mammamiapizzacrust t1_ja8zn01 wrote
It's okay guys. They signed the Paris agreement
UniquesNotUseful t1_ja9at98 wrote
So the Paris Agreement means targets for different countries at different times.
The agreement was that everyone would scale back but advanced economies that already benefitted from cheap dirty energy would stop sooner.
China target under the Paris Agreement was peak CO2 emissions 2030 then cutting down afterwards to be carbon neutral in 2060. China revised to be peak 2025 (they only seem to set publicly once on target) and agreement not to build coal power stations outside China.
So whilst we can agree it's bad news, it is still within the agreement.
pascualama t1_ja75uf3 wrote
The world is short energy, this is only the beginning.
Proliberate1 t1_ja7h402 wrote
There is plenty of wind, solar and bio energy to go around if invested the right way
izit23 t1_ja7u3o0 wrote
Problem is that demand for energy is rising as well.
waitinp t1_ja73prg wrote
Where's Greta now?
cosmic_fetus OP t1_ja76uk6 wrote
Doing more than either of us?
zoidalicious t1_ja7en0z wrote
While flying around the world to all the green conferences.. But never in Asia?
Propagation931 t1_ja7hqt9 wrote
>But never in Asia?
I mean realistically, she has more chance of success getting any changes done in say... Norway than in China. Even if China is the biggest polluter, what would be the point of going to China to protest only to wind up getting arrested? Better a small chance to make a small change than a 0% chance of getting anything done.
izit23 t1_ja7tt1d wrote
Is she flying or you just assumed?
zoidalicious t1_jabrdeg wrote
Oh no, she takes a sailing yacht.. and the skipper gets flewn in. But hey, the emissions are paid for.
qaktqtrL t1_ja78rk8 wrote
Like what ?
Own-Necessary4974 t1_ja7ibit wrote
Living in your head rent free. Just be sure to apply the same level of scrutiny to anyone telling you she is bad.
qaktqtrL t1_ja7iq9a wrote
Im just asking a question. What is she doing ? You can downvote or you can give me a clear answer i dont give a fuck.
maestroenglish t1_ja7o6fy wrote
You care more about Greta than you do the destruction of the Earth.
Weird, bro.
qaktqtrL t1_ja7pe9r wrote
I dont give a shit about her, she a fake ass like all of them. I was just asking a question and nobody is giving me an answer, just stupid statements.
maestroenglish t1_ja8agcx wrote
Everyone else is stupid!
Donutpie7 t1_ja7kbj6 wrote
She’s sitting in the toilet
wart365 t1_ja72hfw wrote
"but China will lead the climate transition" - says somebody