takeitineasy t1_ja3m1qe wrote
Reply to comment by [deleted] in Two Israelis murdered in Palestinian terror shooting in West Bank by yoyo456
Justifying killing of civilians right here ^
When Palestinians die, I never give "context" (justifications) like you apparently do.
Homely_Corsican t1_ja3nj2h wrote
This is a problem created and perpetuated by the leadership on both sides, with a little help from the British of course. The extremism is on both sides as is the fault, and horrible acts like this will always occur as long as the occupation holds.
Edit: Sorry I questioned your worldview, downvoters.
SCZ- t1_ja3onjb wrote
So why didn't Gaza turn into a Middle Eastern Singapore but to a hellhole ruled by murderous terrorist group (which the Gazans elected themselves) even though Israel has lifted it's military occupation and forcefully uprooted every single Jew that lived in the Gaza Strip?
This is not about land, it's about ideology. The Palestinians even consider Tel Aviv a settlement, you simply cannot negotiate when the other side doesn't want anything less than a complete destruction of the other side.
Homely_Corsican t1_ja3q4ta wrote
I put some blame on the British for allowing two divergent societies to form in 1920s and 1930s. Some of the blame also rests on the UN for not allowing for a more peaceful partition. The Palestinians use of terror has not helped, nor have illegal occupations, blockades, or the creation of illegal settlements (all of which incredibly exacerbate the problem and delegitimize Israel on the world’s stage). Let’s not forget Israeli extremism. When you have a PM who says that Palestinians as a people don’t exist, how you move forward from that? How can you negotiate with someone perpetually victimizing you and denying your very existence?
SCZ- t1_ja3ub3x wrote
Yes the British Empire (along with France) has done unspeakable damage to the middle east; damage that is felt to this very day. However blaming the Brits for doing stuff 80 years ago isn't going to help anymore. Also twisting the historical facts that led to this conflict (like you just did) doesn't help either. How the UN would've partitioned the land is irrelevant because at that time the Arabs in Mandatory Palestine and in bordering countries did not condone the idea of a Jewish state in any boundary whatsoever. Moreover, the Arab states did not attack Israel to "free Palestine" (meaning to establish a Palestinian state) but to take the land for themselves. Further proof for that is that the West Bank and the Gaza Strip were Jordanian and Egyptian territories respectively until 1967 yet they did not establish a Palestinian state. Not only that, but the PLO (the Palestinian Liberation Organization) was established in 1964 when there was no Israeli occupation in the West Bank nor Gaza whatsoever (you can try and guess what they actually wanted to "liberate").
You also failed to mention that many Israeli Prime Ministers (both left wings and right wings) have tried to negotiate with the Palestinian but failed. The worse of then all was the Oslo Accords and then later the Camp David talks that eventually collapsed due to an intentional and planned uprising (the second intifada) by the Palestinian leadership.
But even after that, Israel gave the entire Gaza Strip to the Palestinians, Jew free as they wanted, with no conditions as a solid step toward peace and that also blew up in Israel's face.
There's a good reason why over the years Israelis have been leaning more and more toward the right political spectrum, whether it be the Palestinian leadership unwillingness to compromise even a bit for peace or the endless terror attacks against innocent civilians by suicide bombers or rocket barrages.
To this day the Palestinians haven't returned to the negotiating table. They deliberately incites its population against Jews, glorifies terror attacks against Israelis and even pays salaries to convicted terrorists (pay for slay).
So saying that "yeah both sides are bad" is giving the Palestinians way too much credit that they actually deserve.
Homely_Corsican t1_ja3w112 wrote
What fact did I twist? The UN could’ve done a lot more to ease the transition. Instead it paid for Europe’s crimes with Palestinian land, and also gave Israel the most resourceful land in the area, while Palestinians had no say whatsoever. Arabs were upset because they viewed the partition as more European imperialism is the region, which you acknowledge yourself. I agree that Palestine has been a political football of sorts both regionally and internationally.
In terms of negotiations, see my previous post. Also, the Palestinians likely see themselves as in a non-negotiable position as a result of desperation, very much like the Zionist terrorists involved in bombing and assassinations post WW2.
Also, should I start listing examples of Israeli terror, which are numerous, or indefinite detentions?
You conveniently ignore the blockade and settlements, both illegal under international law.
Edit: added stuff.
[deleted] t1_ja6osr7 wrote
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[deleted] t1_ja3nz9u wrote
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yoyo456 OP t1_ja3pmd7 wrote
>they’re almost always branded as terrorists
Because, at least since the beginning of the year, they were almost always members of terror groups.
>deserving of it by being in close proximity to militants regardless of who they are.
These are the people my heart goes out too as well. They don't choose who lives next to them or what is done next door and yet get caught in the crossfire anyways. But the alternative is to let terror groups go without threat. Of course it is sad there are civilian casulaties, but the IDF tries to minimize them and succeedes in recent years compared to other armies (obviously there are some, but at least less)
[deleted] t1_ja3r7qs wrote
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yoyo456 OP t1_ja3v0g5 wrote
The main highway goes through the town. They were stuck in traffic. They were shot at point blank and the terrorist ran off by foot. They were going to their yeshivas in Olga (about 45 minutes north of Tel Aviv) and Kiriyat Shmonah (near Lebanese border) not even in the West Bank.
If you don't like Jews driving through, don't build your village on the main highway.
[deleted] t1_ja3vwr1 wrote
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yoyo456 OP t1_ja3yjs5 wrote
>The settlers are the one who built their towns and the highways
Yes, yes. The ancient Nablus-Jerusalem road was built by settlers. You know this was an ancient road that connected Nablus to Hebron through Jerusalem and Bethlehem (and today Afula and Ramallah as well) we are talking about. Maybe settlers paved it (and I'm not even sure of that), but they certainly didn't choose the route.
Preisschild t1_ja42kyv wrote
Ukraine doesnt target russian civilians.
Those guys do almost primarily
[deleted] t1_ja42r22 wrote
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grapehelium t1_ja46ykh wrote
can you please give examples showing how israel supposedly regularly targets civilians? I.e. civilans killed for simply existing, not in proximity to a firefight.
I am not denying that there have been civilian deaths on the palestinian side, I am denying that Israel has a policy of targeting civilians for no reason other than to kill a palestinian.
The point is, There are palestinian groups that exist to kill jews. including civilians. Including kids in beds. including people having a drink at a pub - just regular civilians, not soldiers involved in a firefight.
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