Submitted by Caratteraccio t3_11d9r6y in worldnews
adam_demamps_wingman t1_ja8hu4h wrote
Reply to comment by ScottyC33 in Anti-war partisans in Belarus claim to have damaged Russian plane | Belarus by Caratteraccio
The US Navy is going to learn several thousand men in a tub might not be as impervious as they used to be. Time on target works with drones.
Badloss t1_ja8k982 wrote
The US Navy has lasers on their ships that could pretty effortlessly shoot down slow fragile drones
paul_wi11iams t1_ja8ytyd wrote
> The US Navy has lasers on their ships that could pretty effortlessly shoot down slow fragile drones
Transposing to the current situation, the Belarus/Russians will surely figure out defenses an apply these, but they tie up personnel, generating a cost and a loss of effectiveness on the equipment defended.
This kind of military harassment strategy was used by the WW2 French resistance, and certainly dates deep back into history.
It also creates media noise, attracting attention where the adversary wants to remain discreet. And successfully so in this Russian "AWACS" case
The69BodyProblem t1_ja8qw1c wrote
What's the range on those things? How long do they need to hut each target to knock it out? Once someone figures those numbers out it's fairly easy to figure out the number of drones needed to swamp that particular defensive system
Badloss t1_ja8shyz wrote
That's true of any defense, but if the number is high enough then the attack is prohibitive. That's generally also why the high value targets like Carriers are sitting in the center of a web of ships that are all networked together.
The69BodyProblem t1_ja8yxsp wrote
Fair, but drones are way cheaper then basically every other weapon system that could take down a warship. It's not something insurmountable, but will certainly require an adaptation of tactics.
teeth_lurk_beneath t1_ja94z8a wrote
I highly doubt a suicide drone could take out a warship. You'd have to sneak it into ammo storage or something extremely precise.
The69BodyProblem t1_ja9anc1 wrote
The Ukrainians have had some pretty good luck with drones vs the Russian navy.
Not a uav, but a drone none the less.
MassiveStallion t1_ja8wiac wrote
Drones have limited payloads and are usually one use.
The obvious counter is super all around heavy armor. Not to mention human wave tactics.
"Next guy picks up the rifle" is surprisingly valid with drone attacks. Frankly it's easier to swarm with lightly armed and poorly trained infantry than to build a done.
The69BodyProblem t1_ja8yo83 wrote
Sure, but human waves aren't very effective against boats, which is what we were talking about. Drones are also a pretty good force multiplier, so if a country doesn't want to, or doesn't have the manpower for human waves they may serve a role there.
TheDJZ t1_ja8re9k wrote
The warhead needed to sink something in that tonnage is pretty hefty. You’re gonna need a drone with a lot of payload and kinetic energy to do serious damage. Not to mention CIWS and other defensive countermeasures.
theaviationhistorian t1_ja90gsx wrote
Exactly, something the size of a speedboat. It's why Ukraine launched a raid at the Sevastopol port at night when the Russian guard is down. An ongoing vessel will be constantly on guard and will need to spam the defenses to get even one hit in. And that one hit isn't guaranteed to be lethal to the ship (as seen with the Tanker War & the USS Cole) unless it's fire retention, crew training, & maintenance has been god awful as it was on the Moskva.
guspaz t1_ja8uotx wrote
That's why you use naval drones to take out ships, not aerial drones. They're much harder to detect, much harder to hit, have very long range and loitering capabilities, and can easily carry a payload big enough to cause major damage to a warship.
TheDJZ t1_ja8wh8w wrote
Ah that’s my mistake I thought they meant a drone swarm as in the switchblades kamikaze drones. I’m not too familiar with naval drones but from my understanding it’s a bit like a waterborne VBIED almost right?
Maybe I’m ignorant of their capabilities but I feel like CIWS should be able to engage it in addition to other weapons systems such as missiles and energy weapons. Would love to read more about these kind of drones either way.
guspaz t1_ja95l0q wrote
CIWS wasn't able to do much with them until block 1B in 2016 added FLIR to help target small surface craft. Even then, it's a challenge, they're harder to see/detect, they're harder to hit, they can be armoured, and you'd probably swarm them.
However, I'd imagine swarms of small missile boats are probably a bigger problem. It's a very cheap way to get a lot of anti-ship missiles in the air to saturate defenses.
thetasigma_1355 t1_jaahhws wrote
Somehow it never occurred to me that underwater drones were a possibility even as I’ve literally watched underwater robots do things.
Probably a hell of a lot easier to build and don’t have nearly the same weight challenges as it doesn’t have to, you know, fly.
guspaz t1_jaaocoj wrote
I was referring more to small stealthy surface drones, like Ukraine's can carry a 200kg warhead and have a one-way range of 800km, but underwater drones... I mean, that's pretty much the literal definition of a torpedo, no? A modern Mark 48 torpedo has an estimated max range of 38 km at 55 kt or 50 km at 40 kt, probably even farther if you ran it slower... or if you weren't trying to fit it into a 21-inch-wide tube.
theaviationhistorian t1_ja8zkgt wrote
The US Navy has been training for this exact scenario for decades. Just replace drones with a rush of cannon fodder with missile launchers riding Boghammars.
And if a ship is manned by a thousand plus people, that capital ship will have plenty of friends nearby as destroyers & frigates don't need that much manpower.
adam_demamps_wingman t1_ja9frjj wrote
“There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today.”
That applies to more than one initial engagement, including future ones.
Its_a_me_marty_yo t1_ja8slv2 wrote
You think the US military hasn't been aware of drones and planned how to defend from and attack with them since before you ever even heard of them?
Noblman_Swerve t1_ja9ren4 wrote
People keep saying this but have only pointed towards naval answers which are incidental because they are more worried about missiles. There is no comprehensive anti-UAS platform, just a lot of conventional AAA weapons. You don't want single shot overkill weapons for cheap kamikaze drones.
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