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wetmarketsloppysteak t1_je6og1h wrote

Reply to comment by scoofy in Melting Antarctic ice predicted to cause rapid slowdown of deep ocean current by 2050 by Lakerlion

How do you measure the economy? Economic growth as measured now is failing and causing people to die and will be the cause of everyone to perish. All for the sake and momentary needs of the few on top. Economists of the past century have failed us and were wrong completely at the most basic levels. If you want a healthy economy you need a healthy society and currently those things are not syncing up. We need to change how we measure the economy and what what we choose to emphasize when it comes to overall well being.

I am not exactly arguing or disagreeing with you, just elaborting on my point.

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scoofy t1_je6op5f wrote

> How do you measure the economy?

My ability to get food for some form of labor at the grocery store is a pretty good starting point.

I don't have a farm, so I'm wholly dependent on other people halfway across my country to grow my food for me. I trade my labor indirectly for that food. That's the economy.

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Feynnehrun t1_je6vnyn wrote

Not trying to say you need to change your behaviors or that you're even in a position to. But this way of thinking is exactly why corporations will continue to destroy the environment for profit. Many people have the ability to become partially or completely self sufficient with produce. Livestock is a bit different.

Anyone with a lawn is choosing to use that space to grow an ornamental plant that requires constant care and maintenance instead of a beneficial food bearing plant that also requires care and maintenance.

If more people worked harder to become more self sufficient, instead of relying on the "trade labor for food" model....more of society would be insulated from damaging effects of a failed economy and would not become part of the "billions" that may die in an economic breakdown.

Obviously this is an overly simplistic argument and I understand there are many nuances to this that aren't being accounted for like those living in apartment complexes in densely packed urban areas....there are solutions there too....but simply being apathetic to "I'm completely dependent on the economic situation that's killing us and I have no capability or motivation to change that" is certainly not setting yourself up for success in a world where we can clearly see, decades in advance, what the consequences of that will be.

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scoofy t1_je6xcdd wrote

Right, so I'm having trouble in my neighborhood meeting trying to get safe bicycle infrastructure put in, which is constantly being blocked people preserving street parking, or switching from gas stoves and heating equipment to electric (even though the electric is in large part still GHG based), but you're only asking people to turn their front yard into fucking farmland, and convert the worlds largest economy into one built on subsistence farming.

I honestly feel like your arguments are so naively idealistic that you'd have a hard time convincing your neighbor that it's feasible, much less an entire city.

This argument are in the same vein of the cultural revolution, and that didn't end well.

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Feynnehrun t1_je6zr7b wrote

First, my argument was not one about the possibility of getting everyone to collectively engage in these practices. It was simply an observation on a single way in which a person could insulate themselves from food insecurity in a failed economy.

Second, nobody said "turn your front yard into a farmland" a family of 4 could be sustained for an entire year on a series of raised beds in less than 800 square feet. As I said, this isn't feasible for everyone, but it is feasible for a lot of people, regardless of whether they're willing to or not. Those who are not willing to, will suffer from food insecurity when the economy collapses. Whether you or I can convince them of not isn't our problem, it's theirs.

One thing I can say for certain, is that if we destroy the climate through our continued practices, nobody will be growing anything in their yard, whether they want to or not.

I live in a redneck, MAGA county, and I fully understand exactly how unwilling people are to accept any new ideas or that climate change is even real. My argument was in no way an argument to convince people collectively to make this change, it was a suggestion that if anyone does not want to die of starvation in an economic collapse because they're dependent on the grocery store, then they probably want to make this change (or some other similar change that reduces their reliance on grocery stores to survive). Their willingness to accept that is none of my concern. My food security situation is handled 100%.

I could make arguments about how individuals could change their behaviors to save our climate....but again, I know all too well that will fall on deaf ears.

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