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ShareYourIdeaWithMe t1_iu5065f wrote

>Russia has told China that it is willing to hold dialogue and return to negotiations with Ukraine

Get the fuck out of Ukraine. Ok, good talk.

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WeridThinker t1_iu50frb wrote

Ukraine's position is simple, Russia completely pulls out and starts paying reparation.

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cactus468 t1_iu8j4d3 wrote

Do people like you actually belive this of are you saying ot for reddit points. I can't tell. Russia has nukes, it's never leaving donbass or crimea

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Devourer_of_felines t1_iu92513 wrote

“Russia has nukes. It’s never leaving Kharkiv”

“Russia has nukes. It’s never leaving Kyiv”

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Fun_Ad_3206 t1_iu8lyd0 wrote

Maybe because nothing else is acceptable and no other governement would accept anything else

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greenduck4 t1_iucf8ac wrote

If having nukes will give a country such privileges, then everyone in the world should be given nukes.

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WeridThinker t1_iu8qwrx wrote

Do you think Ukraine wants anything else other than what I suggested? I'm merely repeating what Ukraine has been saying. Whether you or I believe it could achieve these goals and how, is of another discussion.

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cactus468 t1_iu93db2 wrote

I think I might of missed your point. Ukraine and the west definately want it to happen. Sorry for any confusion :p

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Floofyboy t1_iu4zz1n wrote

> The two ministers also discussed the “issue of not allowing the use of weapons of mass destruction”, spokesperson Wang said, adding that China “…believes that further escalation of the situation should be avoided to prevent a humanitarian disaster”.

I mean, i guess China is evil but not insane, that's a good thing i guess?

Having a dialogue is a good thing the issue is Russia never really wanted to negotiate, all they proposed was extremely one sided deals. If they really want a dialogue they need to show they are willing to compromise more than they were before.

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a_sense_of_contrast t1_iu50py7 wrote

> I mean, i guess China is evil but not insane, that's a good thing i guess?

It would be harder for China to continue to do business with Russia exploit the situation if they escalated to nuclear weapons.

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[deleted] t1_iu52w5w wrote

[removed]

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a_sense_of_contrast t1_iu576eu wrote

> Now, the ruling CPC would disagree with that view, but I suspect Xi can't really side with NATO or the US on this issue over Russia without committing political suicide.

Your post assumes the nuclear weapon use would escalate to full out nuclear war, which is even more unlikely than nukes being used in the first place. What is likely to happen is American and European conventional forces becoming involved and pushing Russia back to their border.

Further, if we see Russia use a nuclear weapon, China's position of continuing to trade with them becomes very difficult. All China cares about is furthering its own economic interests, so that would be a poor development for them. They do not want escalation, they want the status quo of a weakened Russia to get more favourable resource deals from them.

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NaCly_Asian t1_iu5aeur wrote

Oh. I was assuming that Russia responds to NATO getting involved by targeting NATO cities. Basically, would NATO intervention over Ukraine be worth losing their cities and economic centers?

Also, the nationalists that support nukes and believe in whatever ideological propaganda are most likely lesser educated (not finishing high school or did not go to college) and most likely live out in the non-tier 1/2 cities. Although their lives have improved in the last 30 years, there is still a large income disparity, where most of the benefits are seen in the cities. And the CPC has only 100 million members. It would be a bit ironic if the CPC was overthrown for not being socialist enough.

And with the trade restrictions the EU and US is putting on China, the CPC does see that extreme sanctions will eventually be put on them for whatever BS reason, so they may think that eventually Europe and the US would refuse to do business with them anyways.. so they won't be losing any customers or trade partners if they wipe each other out.

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Deep-Mention-3875 t1_iu5ekrq wrote

> Basically, would NATO intervention over Ukraine be worth losing their cities and economic centers?

Check America’s history and you tell me if threatening america has ever worked

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a_sense_of_contrast t1_iu5cj7d wrote

> Oh. I was assuming that Russia responds to NATO getting involved by targeting NATO cities. Basically, would NATO intervention over Ukraine be worth losing their cities and economic centers?

Why would Russia do that though? They would only stand to lose in that scenario because they would face equal nuclear retaliation.

What is increasingly worrying about the war in Ukraine is that on the one hand, Putin seemingly cannot afford to back down, yet on the other hand, at the present rate, he is seemingly losing the conflict. That is backing him into a corner. The million dollar question is whether he will escalate to prohibited weapons (nuclear / chemical / biological) to compensate. As I've argued, it's a big gamble for him and he does not strike me as an irrational actor, just one who's been misinformed and did not expect the west to get involved.

Frankly, what I expect to happen is for the Republican party to take congress and for them to use that to try to stifle financial and military support for Ukraine. They've already shown support directly and indirectly for Russian interests, so it would stand to reason that they'd use the excuses of cost and isolationism to throw Ukraine under the bus for their authoritarian ally.

> Also, the nationalists that support nukes and believe in whatever ideological propaganda are most likely lesser educated (not finishing high school or did not go to college) and most likely live out in the non-tier 1/2 cities.

I think you put too much credit into what nationalists believe. We're talking about authoritarian countries where the state controls the media and messaging.

> And with the trade restrictions the EU and US is putting on China, the CPC does see that extreme sanctions will eventually be put on them for whatever BS reason, so they may think that eventually Europe and the US would refuse to do business with them anyways.. so they won't be losing any customers or trade partners if they wipe each other out.

This is mistaken. Europe and the US do not want to sanction China and China does not want to be sanctioned. The problem is that China is starting to challenge the present American hegemony in a variety of ways. The Americans' recent cut off of China to advanced chip market is an expression of trying to slow down China from fighting the US. If China goes after Taiwan, it would be another challenge to the status quo. China does not have to do these things, but they don't want to be under the Americans' thumb. And we all just get swept along with all of this as rich people fight for wealth.

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autotldr t1_iu51l99 wrote

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 69%. (I'm a bot)

> BEIJING: Russia has told China that it is willing to hold dialogue and return to negotiations with Ukraine and the US over the ongoing war in the eastern European country, the Chinese foreign ministry said on Friday.

> Moscow expressed its willingness to hold dialogue with Kyiv and Washington over the situation in Ukraine during a phone call between Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov and his Chinese counterpart, Wang Yi, on Thursday, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin said on Friday.

> "China and Russia have legitimate rights to realise their own development and revitalisation, which is in line with the trend of the times. Any attempt to stop China and Russia from marching forward is doomed to fail," Wang, who is state councillor and is also a member of the powerful Communist party Politburo, said.

Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Wang^#1 Russia^#2 China^#3 Ukraine^#4 minister^#5

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wifebeatsme t1_iu7xwfc wrote

What is the end game here? Ukraine won’t talk to Russia till the get out. Even after the do leave Ukraine will never be able to trust that Putin or someone like him won’t just try again. Fuck talking to them and fuck China too.

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