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Hirronimus t1_iy3o2dj wrote

How many Ukrainian civilians need to die for the West and NATO to realize that they need to close the sky. If they won't do it, give more tools for Ukrainians to do it themselves.

Sometimes I read these articles and I feel like Ukraine is fighting this war with one hand tied behind it's back. It's hell of a handicap, but imagine if they weren't restricted by politics of the west.

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Impressive_Bank_3794 t1_iy3viq3 wrote

So if we didn’t give them a bunch of shit? They would get crushed. It’s being funded by American tax dollars I’m sure that’s so hard on Ukraine

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Hirronimus t1_iy3x5pe wrote

Wtf are you even talking about?

I am not saying we don't help. I am saying Ukraine needs more so they can do the work of closing their sky themselves.

In the beginning of this war a lot of people called on NATO to close the sky. Imagine if UA had the AA systems then.

Help is there. Many of UA leaders have been saying that the West is helping, albeit slow to prevent unnecessary deaths.

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Moon_Moon200 t1_iy3ymik wrote

Because NATO closing the skies would mean soldiers using weapons to attack and kill Russian soldiers using planes, which could be interpreted as a declaration of war.

On the other hand, we cannot give just give the weapons to Ukraine. They would need months of training beforehand. And those weapons in particular are not plentiful.

Take israel for example, they have around 5 iron domes that everyone was calling they should give them all to Ukraine while being attacked themselves. You also need a few of them just to protect a single city. You would need a large part of NATO weapons reserve to keep up with Russia country wide missile barrage

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imjesusbitch t1_iy5husa wrote

Russia sent their own pilots and planes to Korea, and killed Americans with them. That wasn't considered an act of war then, would be no different now.

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Moon_Moon200 t1_iy5pkdk wrote

That was the Soviet Union during the cold war. They denied their involvement and the US government was the one who chose not to press the investigation to avoid escalation, like now. It was a good test after all to try technology and combat tactics without pushing WW3

In this case however, a closed skies escenario would mean a constant stream of missiles attacks and anti air weapons from NATO territory or any of its bases, weapons that the Russian can track given enough attacks, and that we cannot know that Putin wont seek retaliation, so is better not to test the limits knowing the possible outcome.

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Impressive_Bank_3794 t1_iy3xoua wrote

One arm tied behind their back? Bro we are propping them up. Oh yeah let’s go to war with Russia that will solve it

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