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hieronymusanonymous OP t1_ixsdoc9 wrote

Reply to comment by Diomas in German foreign minister welcomes efforts to declare Holodomor genocide - spokesperson by hieronymusanonymous

90 years is quick?

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

  • Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
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Diomas t1_ixupui1 wrote

> 90 years is quick?

This resolution may be more concerned with current political events than it is with the veracity of what is being asserted.

You've listed the convention on the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide. To emphasis what you've stated, where I feel its important

> genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such....

Was the collectivised farming (and it's failures) performed with the "intent to destroy (in whole or in part)" the Ukrainian people (or any other minority nationality, ethnicity, racial or religious group)? I am not aware of that being the case. You can starkly condemn the collectivisation process and its outcomes, but using the charge genocide for those failures seems inappropriate to me.

At the very least one I think one must admit it's not a clear-cut "yes, Genocide was committed there". Proponents of this argument also often seem to be unwilling to countenance allegations of genocide committed in other instances by their own nation or nations theirs are allied to.

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hieronymusanonymous OP t1_ixyamuk wrote

“The Kulaks are routed as a class but not finished off.”

  • Stalin, January, 1933, addressing the plenum of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union

There's your intent and there is the portion of your ethnic group, as the kulaks were Ukrainian.

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Diomas t1_iy0baqe wrote

Kulak was a classification for a wealthy peasant farmer, not anything specific to Ukraine or any other minority nationality in the USSR. They were not by any means a national, ethnic, racial or religious group to put things into the context of the convention you'd mentioned.

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