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warrkrack t1_ixy9ql1 wrote

not to be a dick. but they are known as heroes for not surrendering right? was there a battle for snake island?


passatigi t1_ixzauxb wrote

They didn't surrender initially when russia started threatening them. But they didn't have any weapons that could do anything against battleships. So when the island was surrounded they pretty much had only two options: become POWs or die. It's obvious which option is better.

Everything about Snake Island was a good win for Ukraine and a huge failure for russians. Eventually moscow battleship was destroyed by Ukraine and russians were forced to leave Snake Island. But this initial video about Snake Island defenders not giving up was a huge PR win as well. I'm guessing that's why they got the praise, as PR is very important in this war where we rely on support from the west.

Information warfare is very important and to be honest russia is pretty good at it. They have shills in every country and try really hard to spread their false narratives. So every win on the information front is valueable for Ukraine. And everything about Snake Island was definitely a win.


Divinate_ME t1_iy06et0 wrote

What is the difference between war PR and propaganda?


SalviaPlug t1_iy1y2tl wrote

PR is what your side does, propaganda is what the other side does.


passatigi t1_iy0k93x wrote

Let's look at the definitions first.

PR: the activity of providing the public with information about your organization so that people have a positive idea of the organization's work.

Propaganda: information, ideas, opinions, or images, often only giving one part of an argument, that are broadcast, published, or in some other way spread with the intention of influencing people's opinions.

Not much difference. Isn't necessarily a bad thing, though.

Imagine your daughter/your relative's daughter calling you and saying that she is considering going to a drug party with people she doesn't know very well. Would you care to tell her that it might be a ton of fun, if that means she might go there even after hearing your counter-arguments about how dangerous it is? Or would you only say whatever it takes to make her not go there because you are worried about her safety? Probably the latter. And that's straight up propaganda on a small scale. But it's done for the greater good. Even though there is a significant chance that if she'd go, she'd actually have a great time.

And during wartime, propaganda is pretty much mandatory. There is no way around it. You don't want your population to be demoralized. Even more so your soldiers. They need some things they can cheer about and they always need hope. If people fall into despair during such time it's very bad for them.

Let's take Ghost of Kyiv as an example. Even if mostly a myth, it wasn't really some harmful disimformation that lead to anything bad. It was a morale booster. And boosting morale of people on the right side of the conflict is ultimately a good thing.


Zantej t1_iy196lm wrote

Exactly. I think the nuance a lot of people can't handle is that the truth isn't always right for every situation. Sometimes a little lie for the right reasons is a good thing.


warrkrack t1_ixzb1ia wrote

I'm not saying they did anything wrong by surrendering. I just don't get how they can be both heroes for not surrendering... and also surrendering without a fight.


Ithalan t1_ixzx28p wrote

they had no way of knowing if the the Russians would even accept a surrender after they gave the response they did. They might not have fought to their death, but putting their own survival in question at all simply to make a symbolic gesture that the rest of their country could rally around is still a huge deal.


passatigi t1_ixzc2uf wrote

My guess is that it's because they didn't surrender right away even though it could lead to their immediate deaths. And it was good PR which is important. Basically what I explained in details in the comment above.

One desn't necessarily has to die to become a hero.

But I see your point.


warrkrack t1_ixzc9lt wrote

yeah I know you don't need to die to be a hero. but I figure people who are heroes for not surrendering would also... not surrender. or at least put up some fight. they said fuck off... then surrendered. without fighting.


killerbeeman t1_ixyqu0g wrote

Yes, not surrendering is extremely heroic.


Subject-Cheetah802 t1_ixzt6ix wrote

What they said also cemented their heroism forever. Those boys will be gettin blowies till they die for that move! And boy do they deserve em! When they told the warship to f itself I was no longer worried about Ukraine in the long run because their people have souls made from fire with bravery unending. Absolute giga chads! Baddest mfrs around right there.


warrkrack t1_ixysnux wrote

but they surrendred without a fight? i dont get it.


killerbeeman t1_ixyucgb wrote

I thought they were launching missiles knowing the were out numbered and could lead to their death. Don’t know much about the specifics of their capture.


warrkrack t1_ixyvi76 wrote

I mean... if they put up a fight I would think there would be at least 1 casualty... or if they didn't surrender I would expect there to be less than 100% captured?


BasvanS t1_ixztsz5 wrote

Why do you insist on a need for casualties?


warrkrack t1_iy1zsbf wrote

i dont need casualites. and im not saying they did anything wrong by surrendring. i just dont understand how they are heroes for not surredring... and at the same time they did surrender without a fight.


BasvanS t1_iy29mz6 wrote

They made a stand against an overwhelming force and gave hope to a nation under siege. Why do you assume there was no fight?


warrkrack t1_iy2bxh4 wrote

because there was no fight. they were all captured trying to flee the island


BasvanS t1_iy2dptw wrote

They didn’t do enough pew-pew and bleeding for your taste?


warrkrack t1_iy2fdib wrote

it's not a matter of taste. or what I want. like I said a few times. I don't think they did anything wrong by surrendering. it just makes 0 sence that they are heros for not surrendering... wile surrendering.


BasvanS t1_iy2umi8 wrote

Sure. Heroes are people who kill or die, but not who defy their enemy.

You have a fucked up concept of heroism


warrkrack t1_iy33omi wrote

no... i didnt say heros are people who kill or die. i said heroes known for not surrendering... wile surrendering makes 0 sense.


BasvanS t1_iy3ig8i wrote

Would you say you like people who weren’t captured?


warrkrack t1_iy45pqj wrote

like I said. I dont think they did anything wrong. I support ukraine. it just dosnt make any sense.