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goodboinoban t1_ix97d86 wrote

Interesting to see what happens, here. Islamic attitudes towards transgenderism don't really fall along the lines you'd expect; in Iran for example I believe they actually cover gender reassignment as it's viewed as an appropriate way to "fix" gay people.

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helix_ice t1_ix98ec1 wrote

I believe Trans people have full rights and recognitions in Pakistan, but suffer due to societal prejudice.

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Murghchanay t1_ixa4lqy wrote

Yes, they are their own gender class so to speak.

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AGVann t1_ix9esrs wrote

It's important to decouple the Western idea of trans rights being the step after gay rights. Other nations and cultures have different ideas around gender.

In Iran, the state sanctions gender assignment because the Quran forbids homosexuality, but does not forbid gender reassignment. This a bit of a simplification, but basically the Shia school which dominates Iran believe that anything not forbidden in the Quran is permissible by default. So to 'solve' the problem of homosexuality, one of the partners must become a woman. It's not so much about transgender rights, because this means that cisgender men who have no interest in transitioning must also undergo sex reassignment or risk the penalty of death.

Pakistan, like the other Desi nations, have long had the concept of hijras - a kind of 'third gender' of feminine men. Men having sex with hijras is not seen as gay, because of the hijras blurring the line but also 'receiving' is what's considered gay, not 'giving'. Note that hijras are not exactly transgenderism because hijras are not trying to be women, nor is it culturally possible for them transition to being a 'proper' woman. Like with the Iran situation, some are cisgender homosexual men who are forced to live as hijras to avoid the stigma of homosexuality, though they can't avoid the stigma of being a hijra.

Trans rights in South Asia starts more from this angle of hijras, rather than from an expansion of the queer identity.

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WithAnAxe t1_ixa5hos wrote

Don’t worry, some absolutely pants-on-head-stupid American activist on twitter was crowing about how much better life for trans people is in Iran than the US. And could not be swayed from that position, even when it was pointed out that a lot of Iranian transitions are forced and come from a place of homophobia. So, there will be a bad faith take on every fair point made on this topic.

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PurpleSwitch t1_ix9j1n0 wrote

Thank you for this comment, it's an important perspective so I am glad you emphasised it

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Mac_094 t1_ix9i6su wrote

The problem is that many trans people aren't straight. IE, there are some people who were born "male" and are attracted to women but transition into lesbians and some people who were born "female" and are attracted to men and transition into gay guys. (And obviously trans people can belong to any of the rest of the spectrum of bi, pan, ace etc). Part of why trans people joined the greater LGBTQ community is because there's such a big overlap of trans people who are also L/G/B/Q.

This was actually a big issue with trans rights in western countries in the past and still a bit to this day. Even many "trans-friendly" doctors would deny people transition if they didn't have "gender-appropriate" sexual attraction. Which (in part) led to a long and storied practice of trans people lying through their teeth and saying whatever the doctors wanted to hear in order to get care.

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shariewayne t1_ixaggxz wrote

> one study found that 77% of trans people surveyed identified as gay, bi, queer or something else other than straight.

I question a 'study', that is nothing more than a pie chart with no source material, with their link going to a dead site. There are interesting studies and articles about the change of sexual attraction of Trans people during HRT and before/after Bottom Surgery that are more than just one pie-chart.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4192544/

https://www.them.us/story/sexual-attraction-after-transition

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chemguy216 t1_ix9rxoj wrote

It also led to interesting laws trying to prevent gay marriage in some US states before the Obergefell decision. Some states didn’t want to recognize trans people’s gender status, so if your sex was male and you were a trans woman, the law allowed you to marry a woman but not a man.

In some states, trans people would be recognized for their gender identity and were only allowed to marry accordingly. So a trans woman was viewed as a woman and was only allowed to marry a man.

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