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seekknowledge4ever t1_iycfl8l wrote

The sooner EU does it the better. It's mostly Mafia money anyways.


dkran t1_iyf1i72 wrote

I’m confused why the EU needs to invest it and give profits to Ukraine? Why not give Ukraine a better “from the start” bonus? Sounds like bankers wanting to work some numbers.


[deleted] t1_iyf6rur wrote

The main problem being no matter how the spend the profits if they were to truly invest that full amount they would have too much influence on the world economy and I guarantee the group in charge of that will not take into full account or care about the full scope of investing a large sum like that at once. Some asshole will end up with too much money and abuse the system on accident or purpose.


Greedyanda t1_iyfb2in wrote

Too much influence on the world economy?

Those 300 billion are barely 1/3 of Berkshire Hathaways invested assets. The Norwegian wealth fund alone is 1.2 trillion dollars. Vanguard holds 7.2 trillion under management. BlackRock holds 10 trillion dollars under management.

It's hardly anything noteworthy.


Geuji t1_iyfehju wrote

Warren had actually said that if he were to invest Berkshires money in a index fund that the fund would no longer represent the index


[deleted] t1_iydwj7w wrote



ThatGuyBench t1_iye2k8i wrote

Cmon, its not like all is cool and dandy here, but we don't need that money nearly as much as Ukrainian people need it.

I get that there is a lot of corruption in Ukraine, but instead we could use the money to buy and deliver things needed for rebuilding Ukrainian electric grid or helping refugees or something. It doesnt have to be help in direct cash transfer. Currently Russians were focusing their missle attacks on electric infrastructure, and now its on its last leg. In the winter when pipes will freeze, they will break. There will be no plumbing, electricity and so on. Rural places will be doing fine, but cities will be unsustainable death traps when the winter ramps up.

Here in Europe we have what? Big energy bills, few less degrees on the thermostat and less hot water usage. Petty problems compared to what Ukrainians have to deal with.

Myself, I would be happy to see if that money went to arms purchases for Ukraine, but I guess more people would have issues against that, and would be less likely to pass.


HalfLeper t1_iye3046 wrote

Because the EU has a stable power grid. Ukraine does not.


[deleted] t1_iydieb9 wrote



TROPtastic t1_iydny8s wrote

What would be the legal reasoning to use money confiscated because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine to benefit the EU?


okvrdz t1_iydo4rq wrote

Most wars don’t have legal reasoning.


Throwublee t1_iye70ev wrote

They absolutely do, it might just be very twisted.

E: there's a lot of lawyering in war, i heard some podcast about it but I can't remember which one so I googles this article


auniqueusername132 t1_iyeaido wrote

The Roman’s had a very interesting need to justify all their wars as defensive


Koa_Niolo t1_iyesrrw wrote

Then when they did declare war they had to announce it by ceremonially hurling a spear from Roman territory into the enemy's territory. Of course this became difficult when they declared war on Epirus and would have needed to hurl the spear across the Adriatic Sea.

So instead they built a column to represent the enemy territory that was then pelted with a spear whenever Rome went to war.


[deleted] t1_iyeoilv wrote

Yeah super interesting. Dan Carlin talks about it quite a bit in the Celtic Holocaust podcast


dancingteam t1_iye71hp wrote

We should take money from other countries as well. India, China, the middle east. If their citizens have money in EU we should take it and invest in our own stuff.


Artanthos t1_iye5047 wrote

They should invest the money into energy companies.

I hear they are paying great dividends.

Side benefit: seats on the boards of the energy companies.


moxyfloxacin t1_iycdg8d wrote

I can’t imagine Ruzzia would have left those assets out there if they weren’t expecting Ukraine to roll over


hotasanicecube t1_iycdy9h wrote

It’s all tied up in real estate, businesses and equipment. It’s not like it’s all available for withdraw in a weeks notice. Could take years.


moxyfloxacin t1_iyceth5 wrote

Hundreds of billions in gold and Forex and other reserves weren’t repatriated before the war began. Even the article above refers to this as a “pot of gold”


vapescaped t1_iycezpe wrote

Because Russia thought they had leverage over the EU with their natural gas supply. Waive a wand and threaten a cold Europe and they would be left alone, or so they thought.


____DEAFPOOL____ t1_iyckyom wrote

The winters barely bring snow any more. I'd be more worried about not having air conditioning in summer.


santa_obis t1_iyclpge wrote

Tell that to Northern Europe. With that being said, invest the money oligarchs stole from the Russian people, use the profits to support Ukraine, and help the Russian people rebuild their country when they take it back from the criminals running it now.


Important_Leather_84 t1_iyd7yi6 wrote

The problem being... while of fucking course we should help them rebuild because as of now its a clusterfuck with nuclear capabilities. But Ukraine is priority.

Russia has historically always well, shit the bed.

What was it? "Russia's history can be described in five words: " And then it got worse."


saraphilipp t1_iyei8ph wrote

Russia gonna have to give up it's nukes if it wants help from the rest of the world once this is over.


No_Zombie2021 t1_iyensbz wrote

Northern European here. We have insulation and fire wood. Keep the weapons flowing to Ukraine.


____DEAFPOOL____ t1_iyerrdb wrote

Northern Europe did pretty well before electricity and gas. I’m sure they will be fine.


activator t1_iycp74v wrote

Fyi, ya don't need snow for it to be freezing cold


EmotionalSuportPenis t1_iyem259 wrote

Doesn't get freezing cold how it used to, either. Skating on the canals to get places used to be so common it was a Dutch stereotype, now it's relatively rare.


activator t1_iyev98n wrote

With temperatures just around 0°C and slight wind, it's gets plenty cold. Doesn't matter if ice/snow is more rare than before, it's still cold

Edit: Celcius


CG3HH t1_iycwwgy wrote

Where are you that used to have snow and now has AC?? In Germany we get almost no snow and everyone is afraid AC will make you sick 🙄


Important_Leather_84 t1_iyd83ur wrote

Dude, Germans and your fear of drafts and open windows. I'll never understand lol.


CG3HH t1_iydwz0s wrote

Im not german and I fucking hate it too


____DEAFPOOL____ t1_iyere9g wrote

Germans are afraid of airconditioning? Lmfao I have never heard that before.


CG3HH t1_iyezjk8 wrote

It is nearly universal. There are 2 main reasons, fear of blowing germs around (I can kinda sorta understand this one) and the other one is that a big jump in temperature (my sister in law claims it is a difference of 8 degrees C) somehow makes your immune system unable to function. I dunno about that last one, some german should chime in.


hotasanicecube t1_iyf7q4s wrote

Last article I read was said a little less than half of the assets they actually froze were liquid. This one seems to be a little more optimistic. I’m not quite sure where the bank account numbers suddenly came from unless more countries coughed up Russias holdings.


Rhoeri t1_iyd6ja5 wrote

Congratulations Puttie! You’ve reinvented the 80’s for Russia! Bread lines are back on the menu boys!


Zuchku t1_iye2wj4 wrote

He wanted to bring back the Soviet Union after all. Not half bad.


autotldr t1_iyceind wrote

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot)

> The European Union is looking at seizing and reinvesting frozen Russian assets - and then using the profits made on any trades to help to rebuild war-torn Ukraine.

> "We have blocked 300 billion euros of the Russian central bank reserves and we have frozen 19 billion euros of Russian oligarchs' money."

> "There is a huge pot of gold to be taken and dedicated for Ukraine's reconstruction, which are the assets of the Russian Federation and Russian oligarchs," Poland prime minister Mateusz Morawiecki said last month.

Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Ukraine^#2 Russia^#3 billion^#4 euros^#5


[deleted] t1_iych91g wrote

Or they could just give ukraine that $330B


N01773H t1_iyckb0p wrote

Sure. But this way Ukraine gets money and the EU still has a carrot to hold over Russia to encourage them to come to the table. Without the potential to recover the frozen assets there is less pressure from the owners of said assets on the Russian government.

On the other hand, the Russian government just introduces a few oligarchs to their favourite windows if they step out of line, so the political pressure isn't that great.


PsychYYZ t1_iyevzyf wrote

> there is less pressure from the owners of said assets on the Russian government

Oh, I'd think if I lost a billion dollars in assets (much less 330 of them) I'd be hiring an army of thugs to be crawling up the ass of my local government officials until some changes were made.


N01773H t1_iyezws7 wrote

If the assets are in Ukraine though, wouldn't you send said army to go retrieve your assets from Ukraine instead?


kirlandwater t1_iyf2ve0 wrote

Ukraine is not a part of the EU so the EU would have no authority to freeze/seize assets there. This appears to just be funds that are owned by the Russian Central bank, housed within EU borders.

They’ve also seized/frozen ~$15b of Russian oligarch money but this money isn’t currently being reinvested.


activator t1_iycpcfh wrote

Giving a lump sum of billions of dollars is just an open invitation for embezzlement


SCarolinaSoccerNut t1_iyedf8y wrote

  1. If Ukraine suddenly becomes cash rich, then suppliers could start upcharging them for supplies. Not good for anyone except defense contractors.
  2. If the EU does this gradually, then they could use this as a bargaining chip against Russia. Think "we are going to liquidate $1b worth of your assets and transfer the proceeds to Ukraine each day until you withdraw from Ukraine and agree to respect their 1991 boundaries" kind of a deal. If Russian oligarchs know that there's a possibility to get their fortunes back if Russia ends the invasion, they might keep up the pressure on Putin to call it off.

[deleted] t1_iydafun wrote



sanels t1_iydlip4 wrote

Russia already nationalized billions worth of airplanes at the very start of the conflict, i'm really not worried about any russian assets being seized by whomever provided they are given to ukraine for recovery efforts.


TheRC135 t1_iydqa0n wrote

People keep making this argument, but I don't see it.

Nobody is talking about arbitrary seizure of Russian money, they're talking about seizure of Russian money in response to blatant, unjustified aggression and war crimes, for the purpose of aiding the victims of Russia's atrocities. As a foreign investor that wouldn't bother me, because I don't have ties to a criminal autocracy.

Its not like every single Russian in the EU has had their assets seized... sanctions and freezes have targeted oligarchs and other individuals and companies with direct connections to Putin and the Russian government. These are the people who should pay for the war.

Beyond that, the argument that investors from other countries would be scared to invest in the EU if Russian assets are seized is nonsense. People who don't have ties to Putin aren't under any threat. The only people would would be scared away by the seizure of the assets of sanctioned Russians are others who want all the benefits of living in the civilized world while continuing to profit from corruption, exploitation, violence, and autocracy at home.

The threat of asset seizure means one of two things for such people: a) that they have a strong incentive to curtail the worst impulses of their home governments, or b) they should stay the fuck home. Either way, that's a win for the EU.


[deleted] t1_iyde27u wrote



sanels t1_iydlrp9 wrote

at the very start russia literally stole billions worth of airplanes from the eu and investment by the west into their oil projects. there shouldn't be a care in the world for any russian assets being seized abroad, take it all and use it to reinforce and rebuild ukraine


KerbalFrog t1_iydmljg wrote

The difference here is I expect my country to uphold the law and hold my governament to high standadrds then the russias. I dont like this because it erodes MY freedon and security if MY governament can go around ignoring due process and law. I dont belive on stealing from thiefs ... because I dont belive in stealing.


sanels t1_iydo9t1 wrote

If you allow others to steal from you at will and do nothing to retaliate you are just a fool then. It's the same kind of shit china does where they expect to be treated fairly abroad but at home everything has to be done through a chinese proxy and foreign companies are extremely disadvantaged and more often than not just screwed. Due process and law do not apply outside a countries own borders and for their own people, shit most of the time it doesn't even apply internally. There isn't a single country/govt that actually has a good and fair legal system there is soo much bullshittery going on everywhere it's not even funny so posing like their on some moral highground is just straight bullshit.


TurboNinjaFin t1_iye9rs6 wrote

Retaliation can be dine other ways than lowering ourselves to same level with putin and steal. I think it is someways pretty European way to take the money invest it and make profit from it just to remind putler he cant do that no more


123xyz321Z t1_iydg0xq wrote

Please let this happen.


will_holmes t1_iycmwax wrote

This is nice and feelgood, but the process of doing this will take years, far longer than the war is expect to last. The EU has by design a lot of legal hurdles to clear, not to mention legislation, before it can give a seized asset to a third party.

At most, it might be used in service of reparations. Realistically, it probably isn't going to happen for fear of setting precedents.


CodeNCats t1_iyd6p2c wrote

This is weird to me. Why invest and give profits? This seems like a really round about way to essentially take the money for your own use.

Give them the fucking money.

If the EU invests it. They will without a doubt take fees from the money under the guise of needing to pay people to invest it. That $330 billion in money will net some bankers some nice fees and some nice bonus checks. All while locking the money up for years and trickling it into Ukraine.

It's grifting and profiteering.


redsquizza t1_iydh57j wrote

The original capital may need to be given back at some point in the future, that's the point.

Whereas interest/investing profits from the original capital are easier to legally and morally extract from the frozen assets, one assumes.

Almost every war ends with negotiated peace. Frozen assets will play part of that negotiation so if you've suddenly spent it all, you've just lost a bargaining chip.


Papa-Yaga t1_iydek5n wrote

Assuming you invest your money in a diversified index fund like the msci world or the s&p 500 your money roughly doubles every 10 years (on average in the long term). Investing a large sum of money and putting the profits to work can go a looong way and personally i have a feeling that Ukraine will still be feeling the effects of the war 10 years down the line (rebuilding stuff, clearing mines, ect.). This fund could not only help with rebuilding Ukraine, it could also generate funds that can be invested into the countries economy in the long term.

This way they would still on average recieve funds of around $23 billion each year and that for all eternity.

Obviously this is just some quick maths and oversimplifying the situation but generally speaking, if it's for a country or a private person, investing money and putting the profits to work instead of just spending the money itself is not such a bad idea after all.


Thatsaclevername t1_iyeurmi wrote

That was the thing that jumped out at me too, like wtf? It would be one thing if Ukraine was in the EU and this was seed money for some form of reconstruction post-war. But it sounds like the EU is just going to take the money. I'm not sure what the expected returns on investment would be on something like this, but I'm sure it's nowhere near that 300 billion total.

The whole thing seems kinda weird.


CodeNCats t1_iyeytxd wrote

Very weird.

I mean. It's also weird for balance sheets. Give me 300 billion of someone else's money. I promise to give them all of the returns.

Yet I have 300 billion in assets I can leverage as collateral in loans and to put in a balance sheet.

This seems like some fuckery.

Before anyone thinks I am pro-russia. Fuck Russia and fuck putin. Glory to Ukraine.


Corodix t1_iydotjb wrote

Could those hurdles be why they aren't giving seized assets to Ukraine, but the profits generated by those assets?


badDNA t1_iyeyvpc wrote

Imagine one of the biggest con jobs in the history of the world unfolding in front of our eyes and everyone cheering it on. Ukraine is horribly corrupt and truly no different than Russia. What a joke. Yes let’s invest in a dumpster fire of a country where politicians wives are caught with suitcases full of cash trying to exit the country.


Vegetallica t1_iye2pnu wrote

> In the short term, we could create, with our partners, a structure to manage these funds and invest them," von der Leyen added. "We would then use the proceeds for Ukraine.

LOL. This is a huge grift. They and their "partners" are going to charge huge management fees on this capital. And the investments they make will conveniently be in asset vehicles that are themselves managed by their friends. Only a pittance of this will go to Ukraine.

ALL of these assets should be given to Ukraine as reparations. These clowns shouldn't be allowed to "manage" anything.


Basdad t1_iye23dg wrote

If this pic of Putin is current, he’s not long for this world, yikes.


hau4300 t1_iycdg6k wrote

Don't forget to tax Russian natural gas.


jtb1965 t1_iycj8e6 wrote

That impacts the buyer and not the seller, your suggestion makes a bad situation worse.


brokensoulsbroken t1_iycm7kf wrote

In a situation where options are available, taxing the seller will decrease the sales.


renome t1_iycqfyw wrote

Not if the goal is to disincentivize sales.


silveira_lucas t1_iycitua wrote

The amount should be given to Ukraine.


jtb1965 t1_iycjce4 wrote

I understand seizing Russian government assets but not citizens.


Warior4356 t1_iyeasya wrote

When the government is run by oligarchs, where do you draw the line on what is and isn’t the Russian “government”?


Belkor t1_iycms2g wrote

This is long overdue. Use some of it to compensate Ukraine for the 900+ tons of grain that terrorist state Russia stole too.


Solecism_Allure t1_iycw38e wrote

For comparison how much western or EU assets are tied up in Russia?


KerbalFrog t1_iydeniz wrote

The problem is this move brings instability to the entire idea of the international financial system, you cant just seize a country assets, otherwise one day a country may just decide not to pay back the credors it dpesnt like, and stuff like that.


anti-DHMO-activist t1_iydgmtp wrote

Not true, seizing assets has been done for as long as there was money.

This is not a new concept, there's a reason the majority of countries have laws for that on the books already.


raven_oscar t1_iye2w5w wrote

Seizing is one thing spending on behalf is another one. Next step is to explane gulf states and china why should they invest in eu assets.


anti-DHMO-activist t1_iye4i6h wrote

Something that only gets claimed by random people on the internet, but not by people actually familiar with the details.

This move is absolutely not unprecedented, no matter how often you guys claim it is. And thankfully, european legislators are aware of that.


[deleted] t1_iye0hbw wrote



semiomni t1_iyeu7t6 wrote

Bigger threat to stability than forcefully seizing a countries assets and land and people?


KerbalFrog t1_iyexi3v wrote

I dont think anyone is implying that, and thats why we should arm Ukraine for has long has needed.


MynameisJunie t1_iydajbs wrote

Good! Take that Putler!! No one should be supportive of him!!


phoenix1984 t1_iyeamqa wrote

The US should as well. We can use it to pay for the weapons and aid we send Ukraine. Delaware alone has over $1B is frozen Russian assets. I’d also be interested to see if the GOP attempts to filibuster a bill doing so.


JiraSuxx2 t1_iyecn8v wrote

Investing? Ukraine is going to enjoy that 100 billion.


eskieski t1_iyem4qj wrote

JUST DO IT!!! ya cause the damage, now pay to repair. Ever think about not only homes destroyed and whats in them, but cars and hospitals, schools, stores etc. Sorry Vlad, not sorry, ya got to pay, to play


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NoGoodDM t1_iydak5t wrote

$330b invested at 4% interests per year yields almost $1.1b per month.

For comparison sake: according to, the US has given $18.2b in security assistance to Ukraine since Jan 2021.


hooly t1_iydu7ma wrote

Just give it all to Ukraine.


Ensho-Sai t1_iyej2ah wrote

investing it? just straight up give them the money, they need what they can get at this point


gosseux t1_iydxztl wrote

Would suggest to have the corruption issue fixed before giving out a blank check.


throwawayadorno1 t1_iyf4abw wrote

Does anyone remember the Treaty of Versailles and its legacy?


Proper-Abies208 t1_iyfadou wrote

Just do it already. Take it, give it to Ukraine and let them rebuild the country with it. Then send Putin a letter; You break it, you pay for it.


GlobalCoolin t1_iyenw64 wrote

Criminals stealing from criminals and giving the profits to not-sees in Ukraine..

What a lovely world in which we live..


mycall t1_iycvhs5 wrote

With the world possibility going into recession next year, it is not ideal timing for investments that don't directly help Ukraine.


Different-Scar8607 t1_iycnayt wrote

Why invest when they can just be given to Ukraine, like everything else. Ukraine is the boss now.


Brief-Floor-7228 t1_iycr0wc wrote

Because there are guns managers who will Make a lot of money in the meantime moving it back and forth into different investments.


red_purple_red t1_iydjpar wrote

Now is a good time to invest in Tesla and Bitcoin while they are selling at a discount. You don't want to miss out when the next rally happens!