Comments
Shamefuru-Dispray t1_j2bjvmv wrote
Maybe it's because of a combination of incompetence, corruption and the fanatical dedication of your friends up north to sabotage, at every, and any, opportunity anything that isn't rabidly right-wing capitalist? Can you imagine how it had turned out if they weren't corrupt, had studied at a Scandinavian school for public servants and had been supported by the wealthiest nation on earth?
reyxe t1_j2bl5tg wrote
No, kid.
This has nothing to do with "USA doesn't let communism cause mass starvation!!!111!! >:(((", USA hasn't ever been involved in Venezuela at all, had they been involved we would've been freed of this mess for a long time already and maybe in another entirely different one.
Corruption and incompetence were definitely at fault along with shit socialist practices.
DuranteA t1_j2btj3s wrote
> No, kid.
Way to sound like a condescending ass.
[deleted] t1_j2bvkh3 wrote
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Shamefuru-Dispray t1_j2bn312 wrote
You get back to dreaming of a plateful of freedom fries child.
reyxe t1_j2boaz1 wrote
I mean I live in Venezuela and I lived what caused the issue, you just read some shit opinion on a far left sub lmao
DantesDivineConnerdy t1_j2cdmu5 wrote
You live in Venezuela and you're here on reddit saying shit like
>USA hasn't ever been involved in Venezuela at all
Are you an American living in Venezuela? It's difficult to believe any Venezuelan who knows their history would say something so wrong. Its not a secret that the US funded this coup just like it's no secret they funded the coup in '48. Do you know where Jiminez fled to safety when actual Venezuelans threw him out and restored democracy? The last American president openly put a price on Maduro's head and everyone knows about the USAID jackpot that awaited Guaido. Even if you pretend the multiple coups never happened, you can't escape the fact that the US was all too happy to be Chavez and Maduros most important trade partners-- whether it was toppling Venezuelas govts or supporting their dictators, the US has always been involved in Venezuela and you embarrass yourself saying otherwise.
reyxe t1_j2daftl wrote
Lmao I've lived here my entire life dude, you know Jack shit.
Angarita was a populist, Jimenez was a dictatorship and got coup'd too, funny how you say USA weren't involved then but "actual Venezuelans" when the governments after him were really close with them.
Everything you mentioned is fairly recent. USA was never involved against Chávez, or even Maduro until sanctions.
DantesDivineConnerdy t1_j2ercha wrote
Oh so before it was
>USA hasn't ever been involved in Venezuela at all
Now its
>USA was never involved against Chávez, or even Maduro until sanctions
Do they have the phrase "moving the goal posts" in Venezuela? Did you just forget that Jimenez' dictatorship was funded by America? I guess you've lived there all your life but maybe you're only like 10 years old and so all of that is ancient history to you.
American oil owns Venezuela-- that's called being involved. American oil owned and funded Chavez just like it owned and funded Jimenez. No matter what side you're on, the unavoidable fact is that America is always involved, and if things aren't going the way they want, they'll assassinate your leaders or fund a coup. Learn your history.
reyxe t1_j2evac4 wrote
Holy fuck a coup 50 years ago won't have effect on current crisis specially when the entire political system has changed since then.
Jimenez dictatorship funded by USA LMAO, that just shows you know nothing about that period.
[deleted] t1_j2dg240 wrote
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qrussman t1_j2bobw6 wrote
Gotta lift the US sanctions against Venezuela & Cuba. No brainer call. Either they aren’t doing anything to damage those economies so lifting them would have no effect (not the case) or they are indeed damaging those economies & lifting them would ease the suffering of the people just trying to live their lives (the case). If someone is so confident that those economies would fail even without the sanctions then lift them & prove it.
reyxe t1_j2db8eq wrote
Nope, don't lift that shit.
As of right now, Venezuela is having a resurgence period caused by sanctions.
As backwards as it might look like, it's true. Sanctions caused Maduro to make the market "freer" because they can't launder money outside the country so they are forced to use it here.
New businesses have popped up EVERYWHERE. Wages have steadily risen to what felt impossible.
If you lift the sanction, we go down to shit again.
McGuv19 t1_j2en9d6 wrote
Do you think the grey/informal economy is an important part to Venezuela’s recovery? Because I think I saw that in 2022 around 1/5 of Venezuela’s GDP right now comes from black market trade. And actually in the past two years Venezuela’s GDP has actually increased overall I believe which is nice.
For me I think the cause of the economic crisis is a mix between the long term effects of Chavez’s economic policies, but also because of the short term effects of the US embargo.
Chavez’s management of the Venezuelan economy led to an over dependence on oil exports, which was fine while the value of oil remained high; but in the 2008 recession, demand for Venezuelan oil from China fell by a lot, meaning the value fell too, sending the economy into a slowdown. The long term impact of this was that the Venezuelan economy was already slowing down before the US embargo even happened.
One could say that Chavez’s policies had already weakened the Venezuelan economy a lot, but the US embargo was the event that was the trigger for the current catastrophe. After the embargo the Venezuelan economy nearly tanked, and its GDP fell by around a third in only a year. Lifting the US embargo would lead to the best outcome for not only Venezuela, as it would allow oil exports to resume and drive economic growth, but also it would be preferable to the US, since the US needs to replace their Russian oil and gas with something else.
Please correct me if anything I said seems wrong, I have only researched this topic; you have lived it and therefore would have a better understanding of the situation on the ground.
reyxe t1_j2epkb9 wrote
Depends on what you mean by "informal economy". We used to have buhoneros which were people who would throw a blanket on the floor in the middle of the street and sell basically anything, if you mean that kind of thing, nope.
If you mean businesses that let's just say don't pay taxes or work legally then yes. A bunch of people started selling cakes and many othe things.
While sanctions definitely caused our situation to worsen at first, it's been positive for us because the cash injection the country got is absolutely massive. Average wage went from like 5 usd a month to almost 100$. Chávez created a shit country to have a business in, external investment fell sharp and many businesses left because of it. More people unemployed and his stupid idea of throwing money at the poor was our downfall.
Thing is, our worst years were between 2014 and 2016. There's no doubt about that and that coincidentally matches the first years of Maduro's term, sanctions on the country started 2017, so no, sanctions didn't cause our collapse as we had already collapsed for a long time. Lifting the embargo would just take the external investment away. Not like the embargo did anything terrible to us, government doesn't invest on Pdvsa anyway or anything worthwhile so not being able to use our money is better.
qrussman t1_j2ezssa wrote
Another perspective to consider:
"foreign sanctions 'constitute violations of international law' and have exacerbated Venezuela’s economic crisis with 'ineffective and insufficient' carve-outs for humanitarian issues."
"Venezuela’s state-controlled economy began to decline in 2014 with falling oil prices and has been corroded by mismanagement and corruption. By the time the US first imposed broad economic sanctions in 2017, Venezuela already had the highest inflation in the world and was experiencing chronic shortages of basic goods.
However, Douhan’s report emphasizes that existing 'calamities' were exacerbated by 'unilateral sanctions increasingly imposed by the United States, the European Union and other countries.'"
"broad sanctions remain, complicating the country’s access to basic medical and food supplies, despite exemptions for humanitarian needs.
'Impediments to food imports, constituting more than 50 per cent of food consumption, have resulted in the steadily growth of malnourishment in the past 6 years,' Douhan’s report reads, noting that hungry Venezuelans’ “coping mechanisms” include reducing their number of meals per day, selling household assets, and child labor, among other things.
The impact of trade sanctions is particularly felt today in the Venezuelan countryside, where agricultural activities have all but stopped since imports of diesel fuel dried up. Venezuela is still capable of refining limited amounts of normal gasoline but cannot refine diesel, used in heavy trucks and agricultural machinery. Many farmers have been forced to leave their fields unattended as their machinery stood still."
"She also called on the US, the UK and Portugal to release frozen Venezuelan foreign assets – estimated at $6 billion – so that Maduro’s government can purchase supplies needed to confront the Covid-19 pandemic."
"Nevertheless, Douhan described the ultimate economic toll of sanctions on ordinary Venezuelans as unjustifiable, and noted that the US-led 'maximum pressure campaign' also 'violates the principle of sovereign equality of states and constitutes an intervention in the domestic affairs of Venezuela.'"
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/12/world/us-venezuela-sanctions-alina-douhan-intl/index.html
reyxe t1_j2f3icb wrote
>"broad sanctions remain, complicating the country’s access to basic medical and food supplies, despite exemptions for humanitarian needs.
>
> 'Impediments to food imports, constituting more than 50 per cent of food consumption, have resulted in the steadily growth of malnourishment in the past 6 years,' Douhan’s report reads, noting that hungry Venezuelans’ “coping mechanisms” include reducing their number of meals per day, selling household assets, and child labor, among other things.
Ah Douhan the diplomat from Belarus? Belarus the ally of Russia?
I mean, her report had some pretty obvious bias and how she didn't mention any of the rest of the causes of our collapse. You just know her takes are shit when she says sanctions "don't allow the government to import food and medicines" when that's just not true.
1st off, the government never stopped importing food for their shit food boxes, ever.
2nd, the medicine crisis has existed in this country since early 2010's, blaming it on sanctions is LAUGHABLE.
Also sanctions explicitly say food and medicines are exempt, government doesn't import them though, that's always been the issue since most food was produced by private businesses and not the government itself (since they bankrupted most of the food businesses they took over)
qrussman t1_j2f68jj wrote
Another perspective:
"The report details how U.S. sanctions are affecting the most vulnerable in Venezuela. While U.S. sanctions don’t explicitly restrict food and medicine imports, Venezuela’s economy is heavily dependent on oil revenue as a source of hard currency so that private and public businesses can import needed goods. U.S. sanctions have contributed to a steep drop in Venezuelan imports. The report finds that the value of average monthly public imports dropped by 46 percent (to $500 million) in 2019 and another 50 percent (to $250 million) in 2020."
"A tendency towards risk aversion has led banks and financial institutions operating in Venezuela or with Venezuelan institutions to over-comply with U.S. sanctions. This has had an impact across Venezuelan society. As a result, human rights groups, humanitarian organizations, and private companies have had their bank accounts closed, and seen legitimate transactions denied or frozen for long periods of time."
"WOLA, a research and advocacy organization dedicated to advancing a negotiated political accord that leads to free and fair elections in Venezuela, has repeatedly joined Venezuelan civil society in expressing concern about the impact of U.S. sanctions in the country. On September 1, WOLA joined with 115 Venezuelan organizations and individuals in urging the U.S. government to refrain from widening sanctions to restrict the flow of diesel in the country."
qrussman t1_j2f6wh0 wrote
One more:
"What is worse, sanctions have merely exacerbated the plight of citizens in Venezuela, decreasing the likelihood of mass protests and other civic movements, which can help the country restore democracy."
"A report by Weisbrot and Sachs indicates that the sanctions have contributed to not only destabilizing the economy, but also have made it harder for citizens to reach basic goods such as food and medical supplies due to the reduction in imports (Weisbrot & Sachs, 2019)."
https://www.unaa.org.au/2021/10/01/us-sanctions-in-venezuela/
reyxe t1_j2f7umb wrote
Our economy is dependent on the hard currency that the government limited. This is not sanctions fault, it's all Chávez's.
Since the market was freed and USD is able to be used normally our economy started to resurge. Almost like a freer economy is a better economy lmao
No private company has had their accounts closed if proven they share no connection to the government. I'm an accountant.
Affectionate_Fly1413 t1_j2by2g4 wrote
We dont know the whole story down there. The US has done many shady things in south america and always hopes to put puppet governments down there to get cheaper resources. To me basically Chaves was a bad manager who started to spend a lot on social programs and didnt know how to manage the country well. He pretty much decided that Venezuela's oil was for Venezuela benefit and the US was not having that. Its more complex ofcourse but like i said, the US has done shady things down there and many already known. Even Fidel Castro was very good friends with Mandela because he approved what he intended for Cuba. If socialism is so bad then let them have it and let them fail on their own. It be easier to pick up the pieces of a broken country than close the doors for them to progress. Every country in the UN votes to lift sanctions except the US and Israel.
Let them fail. Lets see socialism fail and show the US how right they are.
reyxe t1_j2byg91 wrote
You don't know the whole story so you go and spread propaganda.
Chávez caused this because he implemented the worst socialist policies, price and exchange controls, that along with taking over businesses and destroying them. USA did nothing to us until sanctions at 2017 and we were a dead horse already, in fact, I would say Sanctions caused the resurgence we are seeing today.
Don't preface your post with "oh we don't know the whole picture" if you won't ask for information but post a shit take about the situation, it's disrespectful to absolutely everyone here.
[deleted] t1_j2dfc5z wrote
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Affectionate_Fly1413 t1_j2c5su2 wrote
My whole point was let them fail on their own if socialism is so bad lets see it implode itself.
reyxe t1_j2c6z3y wrote
That's what happened though?
2002 coup was unrelated to USA. By the time Sanctions hit on 2017 we collapsed so bad Chávez even died.
Affectionate_Fly1413 t1_j2c7kfi wrote
They started in 06 as i recall.
reyxe t1_j2c8ve0 wrote
2014 and those were on individuals, not the country.
Affectionate_Fly1413 t1_j2cag8j wrote
There was this reporter and i been trying to find his report who wanted to know from venezuela and this is where i read it but honestly cant find it or the name. But he went in thinking the same but he gave more details on why he changed his mind. Like i said, we get things here that may not be the whole or even true at all. Media here plays along with the government. Things done to cuba im sure are done with venezuela. I just think to leave them be, let them show the world how socialism is bad. Like i said it be easier to pick up the pieces from a broken or even dead country.
reyxe t1_j2daj8e wrote
Socialism caused the mess. You just fail to see it because you don't want to.
BrilliantMeringue136 t1_j2cn2x2 wrote
Now that the USA and EU need petrol, all of a sudden the Venezuelan govt is very nice and democratic. So typical.
Business as usual.
wiyawiyayo t1_j2bak96 wrote
They need a better opposition leader..
reyxe t1_j2db9xl wrote
Fuck a leader, we need an opposition lol
filipinofishboy t1_j2d8s9d wrote
Oil.
[deleted] t1_j2bcxmy wrote
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Chad_is_admirable t1_j2bc9rz wrote
It's just amazing to me how quickly venezuela went from a beacon of freedom and prosperity to being an authoritarian hellhole.
reyxe t1_j2be6l1 wrote
It's kinda sad how this turned from our last ray of hope to get Maduro out to... well, nothing at all.
Back when he was appointed 99% of the people I know were happy and hopeful for the future, but ended up being exactly the same as most opposition leaders, we lacked a plan and good leadership.
Here's to another few years of Maduro's bullshit, "opposition" shitting the bed and absolutely nothing changing for years.
And shit first world communists claiming this as their victory while we suffer and die.