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HeywoodJaBlessMe t1_j2azu6l wrote

Reply to comment by joncash in Putin expects China's Xi to visit in spring, wants to boost military cooperation by BeautyInTheNegitive

Imagine thinking that being permanently 10 years behind in tech rather than right on the forefront meant your nation was now stronger.

Even in this absurd scenario why would China want the chips manufactured in Russia rather than domestically?

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joncash t1_j2b6qn1 wrote

Everything to everyone makes it a simple commodity. That's what China wants. No one to be able to ever control the production of chips again.

Well the production at least. They want a monopoly on the machines that do the production. They see how ASML became a king maker. They also see Intel, Qualcomm, etc... Still have tough competition. Don't fight to control what can be made by the many, fight to control the machines to make them.

To quote, the only people who made money during the gold rush are the shovel makers.

This is why China is banning its CPU to Russia and trying to buy semiconductor firms in Germany and England. They want everyone to be using their machines.

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HeywoodJaBlessMe t1_j2bir7y wrote

This comment directly contradicts itself.

So they want “everything to everyone” with “no one to be able to control the production” of semiconductors but they also “want a monopoly on the machines that do the production”

China has literally no means to control ASML. You don’t seem to know what you are talking about

LOL

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joncash t1_j2bp5qd wrote

China wants to be ASML. I think that's what you are missing. They don't want to bother with the final product like CPUs etc... Flood the market with enough production tools for cheap enough and that stuff will sell for pennies. They don't want to control ASML. They're making the tools right now. It's likely 2-3 years away, but their goal now is while they're behind get everyone on everything they make. Then catch up and become the sole source.

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HeywoodJaBlessMe t1_j2ew5jk wrote

LOL. China doesn’t have anything close to the tech to do what ASML was doing 5 years ago, let alone what they are doing currently.

China can’t control ASML and China cannot become ASML.

Even if China did find a way to create their own fabs and replace ASML domestically that would not make them the sole source of advanced semiconductors. ASML would still exist and would still be more advanced than the (currently fictional) Chinese alternative.

And of course, even if you can somehow design the lithography machines you also need to design the advanced chips themselves. China has neither skill set or technology currently.

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joncash t1_j2fjmqd wrote

I feel like I shouldn't even respond with how little you know. Before we proceed, if you can't answer these questions, it's quite pointless.

  1. Which company is China's version of ASML

  2. Their new lithography machines, what's their resolution, with multiple patterning how far can they go.

  3. What did Huawei just release a patent for?

  4. Which company achieved greater than 200 layer 3D NAND first?

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