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khaberni t1_j218pky wrote

Reply to comment by Scorpion1024 in Jordan king warns of 'red lines' in Jerusalem as Netanyahu returns to office by Pilast

This has been Israeli strategy for 30+ years. They want to keep the situation as is, while slowly ethnically cleansing Palestinians, and building more and more illegal settlements. This sort of worked for them in the past, the old world order, but won’t work in the currently forming new world order.

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Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j21jjpu wrote

Brother what the hell you on rn? And what’s it called lmao

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VeggieSpringRolls t1_j22lvyh wrote

What did he say that is not correct?

Instead of rebutting you just insult him like a 5 year old?

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locwul t1_j22p2qj wrote

A. Netanyahu is the one that pulled out of Gaza so i doubt he's pro the settlements it's more his coalition parties thing

B. If he's ever gonna do it it's gonna be cuz he'll have no choice because the indictment above his head and a way to get rid of it

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YairJ t1_j23ap2f wrote

A. That was Sharon, but Netanyahu did freeze Israeli construction in Area C for ten months in return for negotiation.

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Scorpion1024 t1_j23n669 wrote

Nethanyahu was the one who first authorized settlements in the 90’s

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VeggieSpringRolls t1_j2344tc wrote

Lol. The fact that Israel (Netanyahu specifically) expands settlements is common knowledge and that you don't know that speaks to your knowledge on the matter. What is also common knowledge is that the areas the settlements are expanding to are not recognised by all the international community including Israel's closest allies. Just use Google, you can start with these:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/05/1118122

https://press.un.org/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/israelpalestine-statement-spokesperson-settlement-expansion-and-situation-east-jerusalem_en

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/10/middleeast/israel-settlements-palestinians-intl/index.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

But of course when presented with facts you will either downvote or say it is fake news. Your mind is set regardless of indisputable evidence. Good luck and have a great day.

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YairJ t1_j23aj61 wrote

Some politicians arbitrarily decided that these areas should be free of Jews again like Jordan made them once, so they treat any Israeli construction there as a horrible provocation injurious to the prospects of peace. Edit: Without actually caring about the prospects of peace, if that wasn't clear.

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Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j2422s7 wrote

You’re ignoring literal historical events and context and taking a skewed perspective at face value. Russia and the former Arab brotherhood have done an absolutely remarkable job of destroying the west’s common knowledge and agreement when it comes to history.

Jews get evicted by a third party -> Israel wants to populate and build infrastructure -> a bunch of morons think it’s somehow genocide. Apparently Jews have to take every punch laying down and if they try to return to previous lands it’s completely different and immoral. But a bunch of people deserve their land which they did not live on previously because the Iran-Russia block said so.

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VeggieSpringRolls t1_j24k1dq wrote

I am not ignoring anything. He said something and I responded with facts. These are not opinions, they are facts. Just saying something did not happen does not erase it from history unfortunately.

What you mention above about taking it lying down is your opinion. I am not giving my opinion but responding to him with facts. Simple.

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Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j241ss4 wrote

If someone looks at the sky and tells me it’s green I’m not gonna waste my fucking time educating them on wave lengths and photon interactions with components of our atmosphere. Because it takes an intentionally dishonest person to arrive at the conclusion in the first place, so they’re not going to simply rectify a misunderstanding.

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Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j2438vm wrote

You uhhh know Israel wanted to disengage from the conflict multiple times, tried to give land back to Jordan, literally pulled out of varying areas? When they did that the surrounding neighbors that tell idiots in the west that Israel is keeping the Palestinians down either barred Palestinian refugees or marked them as second class citizens without the privileges of certain professions and benefits. The other nations surrounding them want it to keep going as it means a preoccupied and weaker Israel. There’s a reason the other border states don’t want to create a porous border for the Palestinians and came up with the idea of right of return to a nation of Palestine that didn’t exist prior. It allows them to funnel weaponry, money, and propaganda to extend the conflict without taking on responsibilities. You think Egypt, Syria, Jordan, etc give a fuck about Palestinians? No. They have so much at their disposal and have had so many options to do literally any better than they did. Instead they stole the flames and throw Palestinian youth at the meat grinder.

Sounds like you don’t even know what the second intifada is ??

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Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j244h1f wrote

You know Jordan could have just taken the West Bank back? But they don’t want refugees they just want the status quo. You know Egypt could VASTLY do so much more as a bordering state given the absence of security risk… except they keep the border insultingly locked and tell everyone it’s the jews. The Palestinians’ other regional neighbors do not give a flying fuck about them and are very aware of how little sense the claim to Israel’s land makes. But if it gets Palestinians to kill themselves trying to kill Israelites then that’s a win for them because it further strains Israel’s resources as well as international image.

I genuinely do not understand how people can come to such strong opinions and conclusions without taking the time to read up on the matter when what’s at stake is literal human lives and suffering. What do you want Israel to do? Their offer for separate states was rejected, they pulled out and let their guard down which was met with the second intifada, and they have asked Jordan to literally take some of the area to help. The Palestinians neighbors that they are told are their brothers shut them in and give them weapons and funding under the condition that they attack Israel. It’s just sad

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SteelyBacon12 t1_j225lvv wrote

Because in the new world order noted multilateral institution rules enjoyers Russia and China will approve Israel “liquidating” the Palestinians? Or did you mean something else?

Honestly can’t think of a new world order where the likely outcome is Palestinians getting better treatment.

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khaberni t1_j23h1o9 wrote

Well multiple things are at play. One, china’s growing interest in the region. Two, Israel interest in normalizing with saudi. Three, growing strength and power of newly formed armed groups within west bank that will eventually be too much for Israel to “manage”. Four, growing number of countries siding with the Palestinians. Five, running an apartheid state can only last so much. I can go on and on…

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Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j244wzy wrote

None of these are tangible explanations in the sense that there are worthwhile historical parallels to compare them to. You hate the west and Jews and are grasping at thin air for more copium. Chinese interest? Good god the Palestinians are fucked if China gains a stronghold in the area. They’re literally ethnically cleansing their Muslim population as we speak.

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SteelyBacon12 t1_j243v7s wrote

  1. China doesn’t give a fuck about Palestinians. China will support whatever group gives it what it wants. Maybe that is the Palestinians, maybe it isn’t but China cares less about abstract human rights issues than the collective west. Maybe China has so far been supportive of Palestinians thus far but it seems implausible to me China “cares” about it one way or the other. I honestly believe the US political class cares more about Palestinians than the Chinese one.
  2. Israel may want to normalize with Saudi, but it wants to exist more. Unless you are predicting Saudi leading an Arab block into a hegemonic position like the U.S. has now (and that idea is far fetched) it seems hard for me to believe this one changes things.
  3. I would be surprised if Palestinian armed groups become powerful enough to meaningfully impede Israel’s freedom of action. Clearly it would be nice for them if they could do that, but it’s not as though Israel’s army is sclerotic in the same way Russia’s has turned out to be.
  4. “Growing numbers of countries” - really I’ve seen a lot of liberal westerners get more upset about the treatment of Palestine. I’m honestly not aware of a different change in support. What are you referring to?
  5. For the sake of discussion, let’s agree Israel is an apartheid state notwithstanding the fact there is a Palestinian party in Israel and Israeli citizen Palestinians can vote. What makes that inherently unstable? In South Africa’s case it was a humanitarian motivated set of sanctions, which I believe were led by the collective west as far as I can tell. In this new world order you have referenced without defining it, do you expect China to embargo Israel? As discussed that seems unlikely to me.
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khaberni t1_j23h3y0 wrote

Don’t get why the downvotes. These are facts.

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frosthowler t1_j23532v wrote

Ah yes, building settlements is now genocide.

Palestine is one of the world's fastest growing populations, you may call settlement building 'genocide', but it's almost as effective a form of genocide as charities. Settlement industries are overwhelmingly filled with Palestinians. About a third of all Palestinians work in Israeli settlements or industries.

So, sure, somehow building settlements and stimulating the Palestinian economy (though that isn't their goal, obviously) is genocide. I'm sure another 30 years of settlement building and unsustainable Palestinian population growth will fulfill the Zionist agenda... which is...?

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Scorpion1024 t1_j23nhnn wrote

Building illegal settlements they had promised to not build in international treaties

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frosthowler t1_j23q050 wrote

> while slowly ethnically cleansing Palestinians

Building homes built on land purchased legally (though through shell companies that pretend to be Arabs, because it's illegal to sell land to Jews in Palestine) is just harder to make it sound villainous than shouting about "ethnic cleansing" over and over using the firehose of falsehood

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