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BoiFrosty t1_j2ad671 wrote

Reply to comment by who_said_I_am_an_emu in Iranian author said sentenced to death for giving interview to Israeli TV channel by essential_projection

Religion as a whole: no.

Push for an Islamic reformation: yes.

In know reddit hivemind thinks it's super enlightened and above religion, but complete rejection of all religion is not only not feasible, it would be incredibly destructive to basically every country on earth.

Most of the greatest cultural advancements, historical and knowledge preservation and dissemination, and even a large section of technological advancement, of the last 2000 years both here in the west and beyond has been a direct result of religious institutions.

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who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j2aefxj wrote

>Most of the greatest cultural advancements, historical and knowledge preservation and dissemination, and even a large section of technological advancement, of the last 2000 years both here in the west and beyond has been a direct result of religious institutions.

The period of time in human history where monotheism was at its highest strength is called the Dark Ages. Only when religion started losing power did the era of science and engineer begin.

But hey, prove me wrong. I am an engineer. Tell me how religion inspires me at work.

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BoiFrosty t1_j2ahjgr wrote

First off I don't think I've heard the term "dark ages" in at least a decade due to its extreme inaccuracy. Second, the medieval period picked up that moniker due to the technological backslide after the fall of the Roman empire.

But let's go over some of the important technologies and advancements spurred on by religious thinking:

  • First universities started by the church

  • First printing press was built to better spread the bible because most books prior had to be hand written by monks.

  • Basically all great collections of knowledge were done by monasteries.

  • most of the great natural philosophers, scientists, and inventors were either directly members of or were educated by the church until almost the 19th century

  • foundations of common law, and the basis of natural rights that form the basis of nearly every major power on the planet were explicitly based on Christian principles and law.

  • a large section of many of the greatest works of art, literature, and philosophy were commissioned by the church, or made by people trained/funded by the church.

  • the main means to argue against the institution of slavery were made on explicitly religious grounds. (Similar to two points prior)

That's what I was able to come up with off the top of my head in under 5 minutes. You act so high and mighty as an engineer, well I'm one too.

Only difference between us is I have the humility to recognize the soil on which our culture and world are built rather than having the hubris to act as though everyone that came before me is some backwards neanderthal.

Believe in God or not, but you can't say the church hasn't been a force for good in the world, or as if our modernity suddenly sprang from the earth fully formed.

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who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j2aj9xf wrote

I am sorry your PC version of history doesn't call it the Dark Ages anymore. Maybe you can get a refund?

>First universities started by the church

And all the ones that were not that taught real subjects not theology. Why didn't you mention those?

>First printing press was built to better spread the bible because most books prior had to be hand written by monks.

No, the first printing press with moveable type. Do try to get your details right. Was invented to make a dude some money.

>Basically all great collections of knowledge were done by monasteries.

Or kings or random rich people or sultans. Meanwhile it was a major founder of the Church that asked "what does Jesus have to do with Athens?"

>most of the great natural philosophers, scientists, and inventors were either directly members of or were educated by the church until almost the 19th century

Yeah all 5 of them. Good job. Totally makes up for the ones they imprisoned or burned at the stake.

>foundations of common law, and the basis of natural rights that form the basis of nearly every major power on the planet were explicitly based on Christian principles and law.

Not even close to right. There is nothing even resembling common law (which is just an Anglo-Saxon thing anyhow) or natural rights in the Bible.

>a large section of many of the greatest works of art, literature, and philosophy were commissioned by the church, or made by people trained/funded by the church.

Name 4 examples of each without searching online.

>That's what I was able to come up with off the top of my head in under 5 minutes.

Maybe you should take 6 minutes next time, you might be able to come up with 1.

>You act so high and mighty as an engineer, well I'm one too.

An engineeign student, yes? But you can pretend if you want. And yeah I am proud bastard. Are you going to talk about me or defend your claims about how wonder those children fuckers were that caused the black ages?

>Only difference between us is I have the humility to recognize the soil on which our culture and world are built rather than having the hubris to act as though everyone that came before me is some backwards neanderthal.

And so humble about it.

>Believe in God or not, but you can't say the church hasn't been a force for good in the world, or as if our modernity suddenly sprang from the earth fully formed.

Not and those children fuckers caused the Dark Ages.

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BoiFrosty t1_j2am4x7 wrote

Yeah we're just gonna keep talking past one another. I forget how obstinate reddit intellectuals(tm) that have never actually read a book are.

Just to humor your points.

Universities: harvard, yale, princeton, oxford, royal college of London, and god only knows how many others in places like Germany, France, and eastern Europe. All founded by or with assistance of the church.

Printing press: I guess we're just completely ignoring Johonas Guttenberg? Ever wonder why "guttenberg bibles" are so famous?

Scientists: astronomy, medicine, history, physics and ecology. Most of the famous names you read in history books were trained by monastic orders, or previously stated church founded and run universities.

Art and culture: sistene chapel, dante's inferno, the russian written language, and SO MUCH MUSIC. We wouldn't have the way we write music without the church. (Though to your credit I had to look up how to spell sistene)

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BoiFrosty t1_j2amngt wrote

Rage seethe and cope all you want about how awesome your own boundless intelligence and enlightened mind is, but you are a petulant child without an original or deep idea in your head. All you have said this far are empty, repeated, and factually incomprehensible insults.

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who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j2ar5ze wrote

And the personal attacks, the last refugee of a theist who can't murder their opponents.

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