Sea-Abbreviations-51 t1_j1b2q3h wrote on December 23, 2022 at 12:00 AM

Reply to comment by MadCat360 in Canada moves to mandate electric vehicle sales starting in 2026 by rentalfloss

Alberta Canada Texas coast of Newfoundland

Much more ethical than the child slaves they use in Africa

MadCat360 t1_j1b3loe wrote on December 23, 2022 at 12:07 AM

Barely any lithium comes from Africa. Just like barely any crude oil comes from Russia. In fact most lithium comes from the highly oppressive regime of check notes Australia

YeahIveDoneThat t1_j1bhj52 wrote on December 23, 2022 at 1:54 AM

Yeah, except nearly all of the cobalt comes from Africa, genius. It's all coming from child labor and "artisanal" mining in the Congo.

MadCat360 t1_j1biw76 wrote on December 23, 2022 at 2:05 AM

Most of the cobalt is used in shit you already buy and use every day. If you're gonna go after EVs for being unethical because a small amount of the current battery technology is using cobat, then drop your laptop in a lake.

By the way, significant money is being invested by the US and almost every car manufacturer like Tesla to go cobalt free in EV batteries.

YeahIveDoneThat t1_j1c0m7b wrote on December 23, 2022 at 4:29 AM

Um, EVs use roughly 1000x the Cobalt of my laptop. Also, don't know if you read the headline of the article we're talking about but we're aligning National policy to push for greater quantities of EV sales. Now, do you think that will make the demand for Cobalt go up or down? I know it's a hard problem to think about for you, but let me make it clear: if you demand more Cobalt, then more kids are dragged into the mines, more kids die in mining accidents and an entire population of people halfway round the world suffers toxic metal poisoning so that you stroke yourself off about how "green" you are.

https://www.blackenterprise.com/apple-microsoft-sued-congo-cobalt-mine-child-labor-deaths/

MadCat360 t1_j1c4ldv wrote on December 23, 2022 at 5:06 AM

Sure sounds like you're saying you're not complicit because you buy the products from the companies listed in the lawsuit. Sounds like you are complicit to me. That's why there's a lawsuit.

Cobalt free batteries exist and are being implemented. I wouldn't be surprised at all if cobalt in batteries gets banned in the next 10 years as a stepping stone to 100% EV sales.

For the record I do not support 100% EV only sales. For most people that drive less than 40 miles a day, a plug in hybrid with 30-50 miles of EV-only range is much more resource conscious. I personally drive 150 miles per work day, so I need a full EV with that range. And because the average driver doesn't need it (the resources for those large Tesla batteries that get used maybe 20 miles a day is a big waste), I think you'll see the government back off on the EV sales once more of the market gets saturated to the point where the manufacturing pressure from impending legislation isn't required.

Also, your attempt to expose my virtue signaling is hilarious. I fly big gas guzzling airplanes for a living. I'm not an eco warrior. I'm buying an EV because it's gonna save me 4k a year vs my current car.

reid0 t1_j1cughq wrote on December 23, 2022 at 10:20 AM

It’s a damned good thing you’ve brought up this point that as I’m sure none of the thousands of businesses and engineers involved in designing, developing, building, distributing, maintaining and repairing these EVs would have ever considered.

I’m certain they will appreciate your learned and well informed concerns that aren’t at all laced with absurd nonsense fed to you by your chosen media sources who definitely aren’t backed by companies that stand to lose out in the shift to EVs.

And of course, anyone who would prefer to drive a car that is quieter, more efficient, requires less maintenance, has better tech, and allows them to refuel at home, overnight must definitely only be buying that car to show off how green they are.

It would be unbelievable to think that electric motors are already being designed which don’t require cobalt, or batteries which use sodium instead of lithium. Absurd! Impossible! Because nobody has ever considered your brilliant position that using more cobalt will increase the demand for it and that there are concerns about its sourcing.

And of course, the only possible way to get cobalt is through deadly child slave labour and that definitely could not possibly change despite the enormous potential income available to other mining companies that might want to get in on that windfall.

What sensible and original thoughts you offer us, oh learned one.

Strank t1_j1b5mss wrote on December 23, 2022 at 12:22 AM

I mean, Australia (like Canada) is indeed highly oppressive if you're Indigenous

Five_bucks t1_j1bihlk wrote on December 23, 2022 at 2:01 AM

Indigenous communities are chronically underserved and the history of the Crown-indigenous relationship on Canada is ghastly.

But 'highly oppressive' is a bit much.