Submitted by rentalfloss t3_zsw98f in worldnews
Comments
blazelet t1_j1b67zj wrote
National Post has a long standing conservative bias, a headline like this is meant to rile people up who don't read the article.
RonyTheTiger t1_j1b9qdg wrote
It’s NP, If you read the articles, they’re usually written to also rile you up. Postmedia is a rag organization.
[deleted] t1_j1bjdom wrote
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blazelet t1_j1bsb7g wrote
By riling up I mean the predictable rage that it’s meant to elicit : “convert 100% of new cars to EV in 4 years when we don’t have the infrastructure and EV still costs significantly more than ICE” … see the top comments. If we can’t do it in totality perfectly why are we doing it.
By saying convert a portion of sales or face fines it’s giving manufacturers a financial incentive to start lowering production costs and built an EV infrastructure, which if we can do for a reasonable percentage of new sales in 4 years sets us in a good path in 8 and 12 years
[deleted] t1_j1btf4j wrote
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Gustomucho t1_j1bz9xi wrote
Problem is manufacturers, they cannot produce electric car fast enough, that's why they are still at premium. I can easily imagine in 50 years ICE car owners having to drive 30-40+ KM to find gas.
brebas t1_j1cszfo wrote
We can brush away all the humanitarian issues in Africa because it's better for our environment /s
[deleted] t1_j1ctgrd wrote
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brebas t1_j1ctkzg wrote
Manufacturers can control when and how far you can drive with EVs. What don't you get about that? Try to wrap your pea sized brain around that.
*edit - I guess you are okay with slave labour then? "Slaves are okay if the planet is being fixed" EVS will not be the saviours of the planet you ape
[deleted] t1_j1ctx9z wrote
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[deleted] t1_j1cu46h wrote
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[deleted] t1_j1ioes4 wrote
Ah yes the fan boi of batteries charged by coal plants
[deleted] t1_j1kcpgs wrote
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[deleted] t1_j1kda1i wrote
So you didn’t even read that article then? Yes they are correct, problem is the the countries who don’t use majority coal or other fossil fuel plants for electricity production are also the smallest percentage of the worlds producers of energy. Let me ask you this, what would need to happen to have India, China, Russia, and the USA to replace their energy consumption with majority renewable? What would be the direct cost? How about the indirect cost? What would you consider a reasonable timeline. Would your timeline be feasible without destroying their, and by extension the worlds, GDP?
[deleted] t1_j1kdnr1 wrote
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[deleted] t1_j1keboa wrote
Well gee I guess by saying it’s less without giving a figure is super accurate. You are just wrong and I’m sorry that you hate it but if the majority of the world continues to use fossil fuels for electricity generation than it’s the same. I’ve actually studied this in graduate school and know way more than you. So be a Pinko all you want but it won’t make you right.
[deleted] t1_j1io7al wrote
This is stupid. I like electric vehicles though, for their performance and maintenance schedule. Mandating any of them over gas powered in an “effort” to counter some sort of environmental factor is stupid. It will lead to less innovation in the electric vehicle market and probably hurt the industry over the long run
WhichWitchIsWhitch t1_j1cpu1z wrote
Their reporting is so bad that I wouldn't use one of their articles to pick up dog shit
mazx09 t1_j1b77na wrote
Thanks for talking me off an edge loool
Me two minutes ago....
https://media.tenor.com/HjHrWHjrzXIAAAAM/panda-flip-desk.gif
Connect-Speaker t1_j1bn33j wrote
Wahhhh haha very nice! Haven’t seen that one.
Arcadius274 t1_j1di91w wrote
I was just thinking there was no way
strontiumdogs t1_j1ab87y wrote
Insane. Where is the infrastructure. How is the electricity generated. How do people I high-rise buildings charge at home. Are they truly good for the environment. How does the less well off afford to buy them.
MadCat360 t1_j1afh6f wrote
Edit: you edited your post, so I will preface by saying I wrote this when you only argued infrastructure in your comment.
There's an Engineering Explained video that debunks this. Even if you replace all vehicles on the road with EVs, and make them all charge every day at peak times, it's only 30% more draw than current. If you incentivize people to charge overnight or in the mornings by varying kWh cost based on usage, then the charging overhead needed for entire fleet replacement fits within the current infrastructure. Also realize that refineries take shit tons of power, so if those are not working as much to provide gasoline, then that frees up more electrons for EVs.
Mecha-Dave t1_j1asxkb wrote
Gasoline takes approximately 5 kWh/gal to refine and transport to the consumer's gas tank. That's about 15 miles in my Leaf.
zenzukai t1_j1axggr wrote
I don't think you've even addressed a single argument he brought up. How does one charge an electric car on a 120V 15A circuit that is available to people who live in condos and apartments?
How about full lifecycle of a battery? There is no infrastructure in place to recycle enough batteries, let alone building the batteries to begin with. It would require mining completely 80% of all known lithium sources, even the sources that we can't refine yet just to replace the vehicles we have.
How about cost? How many people can afford a new vehicle? Basically only the 1%. The 99% will be told by the 1% to eat cake.
Also how do you "make people charge them every day at peak times"? You plan on having a special police force going around ensuring people are following your orders? Don't you think that sounds a bit oblivious to reality? Not just idealistic oblivious, like childish 'don't understand basic reality' oblivious.
MadCat360 t1_j1az5vz wrote
They edited their post after I replied. But ok.
Many apartment complexes have charging stations. My complex has level 3 stations that charge an average car in under 2 hours. If a charger is not available for you, you can buy a used hybrid or ICE.
Full lifecycle of batteries is between 300 and 500k miles. After a full battery lifecycle an EV is still between 6% and 20% more energy and carbon efficient than an ICE depending on what the grid uses to charger those EVs. There are numerous studies reporting this.
I make 50k a year. Definitely not 1%. I just ordered a brand new Bolt. Why? Because my ICE Audi costs 35 cents a mile and I drive 25k miles a year. For the same cost as I'm spending on gas and maintenance, I could simply have a newer more valuable car (my Audi is worth about 6k now after 200k miles) and I can increase my net worth while consolidating my vehicle costs into one payment each month. My charging is free at my apartment. Do you understand that this is only for new cars, and that you will still be able to buy a a used car if you can't afford a new one?
Your last point misses what I was trying to say. Worst case, if you replaced every car on the road with EVs, AND made them charge at peak times (worst case scenario), it's still only 30% more draw than now.
pollo316 t1_j1behvt wrote
Just read this and calm down. You are reciting lies from big oil lobbyists at alarming rates. Motortrend covered all of this. https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/amp/
zenzukai t1_j1bk4sw wrote
Like usual, they don't even mention recycling batteries. What is the carbon cost associated with recycling old batteries into new ones? Not sure because it isn't at an industrial scale. Yet entirely dismissed by articles like this.
Did the article address mutli-dwelling infrastructure? The effects of exploding mineral demand?
I know the energy economics of batteries and EVs, and I know the recycling costs of the battery lifecycle put a huge '?' on the real costs.
These hard limits imposed so early are going to be reversed. Businesses are going to fail to properly adapt, government funded services are to fail to properly adapt, private individuals aren't going to be able to afford to adapt.
If you think inflation is bad now, just wait until costs across all society run up a vertical wall.
Electric vehicles are the future, no doubt. The problem is ham-fisting them into society will create distortions in the market, and it'll cost much more than we can estimate today.
Uncle_Rabbit t1_j1c0lhg wrote
We need to be living less materialistic consumer focused lives without all the new tech and junk every year, but that's not profitable so that message won't get pushed, instead they want to sell everyone a new car. The materials used to make the cars will be mined, refined, and shipped with fossil fuels and the cars themselves will be manufactured and charged with fossil fuels. Why do EV's need to be connected to the internet to charge as well? Probably so corporations can monitor your habits, locations, everything and then sell the data to other corporations or governments that will pay for it. Hooray! More ads! In theory EV's sound great (if you believe they will all be charged from renewable sources), but I'm skeptical at best about the real world roll out of EV's. It seems like one more cash grab without addressing the underlaying issues society has.
zenzukai t1_j1c2n9r wrote
The vast majority of energy use globally is for travel, food, heating and electricity. We can cut down on travel, even food and electricity, hard to do for heating.
The most significant things you can do is stop eating meat, stop going on vacations, bike to work. Everything else is trivial.
pdp10 t1_j1ilbpf wrote
> hard to do for heating.
Not fundamentally difficult. It's called "insulation". Difficult to economically retrofit in many cases, however. That 1937 farmhouse with minimal insulation and originally fitted with a coal-burning boiler, will be hard to adapt into a highly insulated, tight-envelope modern house with a heat pump.
WikiSummarizerBot t1_j1ildcb wrote
>"Passive house" (German: Passivhaus) is a voluntary standard for energy efficiency in a building, which reduces the building's ecological footprint. It results in ultra-low energy buildings that require little energy for space heating or cooling. A similar standard, MINERGIE-P, is used in Switzerland. The standard is not confined to residential properties; several office buildings, schools, kindergartens and a supermarket have also been constructed to the standard.
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bigcaprice t1_j1c9vcz wrote
>How does one charge an electric car on a 120V 15A circuit that is available to people who live in condos and apartments?
Same way people who don't have gas pumps in their condo fuel up, you build the infrastructure they need.
>How about full lifecycle of a battery? There is no infrastructure in place to recycle enough batteries, let alone building the batteries to begin with. It would require mining completely 80% of all known lithium sources, even the sources that we can't refine yet just to replace the vehicles we have.
Build a battery recycling plant. Find and produce more lithium (like we've done with oil for decades)
>How many people can afford a new vehicle? Basically only the 1%.
This can't be a serious statement.
>Also how do you "make people charge them every day at peak times"? You plan on having a special police force going around ensuring people are following your orders?
You vary the price of electricity throughout the day to encourage people to charge when demand is lower. Devices that do this for large appliances have existed for years, speaking of oblivious to reality.
[deleted] t1_j1afywj wrote
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Sea-Abbreviations-51 t1_j1axxft wrote
Where do we ethically source lithium for batteries?
MadCat360 t1_j1b05zw wrote
Where do we ethically source oil for gasoline?
Sea-Abbreviations-51 t1_j1b2q3h wrote
Alberta Canada Texas coast of Newfoundland
Much more ethical than the child slaves they use in Africa
MadCat360 t1_j1b3loe wrote
Barely any lithium comes from Africa. Just like barely any crude oil comes from Russia. In fact most lithium comes from the highly oppressive regime of check notes Australia
YeahIveDoneThat t1_j1bhj52 wrote
Yeah, except nearly all of the cobalt comes from Africa, genius. It's all coming from child labor and "artisanal" mining in the Congo.
MadCat360 t1_j1biw76 wrote
Most of the cobalt is used in shit you already buy and use every day. If you're gonna go after EVs for being unethical because a small amount of the current battery technology is using cobat, then drop your laptop in a lake.
By the way, significant money is being invested by the US and almost every car manufacturer like Tesla to go cobalt free in EV batteries.
YeahIveDoneThat t1_j1c0m7b wrote
Um, EVs use roughly 1000x the Cobalt of my laptop. Also, don't know if you read the headline of the article we're talking about but we're aligning National policy to push for greater quantities of EV sales. Now, do you think that will make the demand for Cobalt go up or down? I know it's a hard problem to think about for you, but let me make it clear: if you demand more Cobalt, then more kids are dragged into the mines, more kids die in mining accidents and an entire population of people halfway round the world suffers toxic metal poisoning so that you stroke yourself off about how "green" you are.
https://www.blackenterprise.com/apple-microsoft-sued-congo-cobalt-mine-child-labor-deaths/
MadCat360 t1_j1c4ldv wrote
Sure sounds like you're saying you're not complicit because you buy the products from the companies listed in the lawsuit. Sounds like you are complicit to me. That's why there's a lawsuit.
Cobalt free batteries exist and are being implemented. I wouldn't be surprised at all if cobalt in batteries gets banned in the next 10 years as a stepping stone to 100% EV sales.
For the record I do not support 100% EV only sales. For most people that drive less than 40 miles a day, a plug in hybrid with 30-50 miles of EV-only range is much more resource conscious. I personally drive 150 miles per work day, so I need a full EV with that range. And because the average driver doesn't need it (the resources for those large Tesla batteries that get used maybe 20 miles a day is a big waste), I think you'll see the government back off on the EV sales once more of the market gets saturated to the point where the manufacturing pressure from impending legislation isn't required.
Also, your attempt to expose my virtue signaling is hilarious. I fly big gas guzzling airplanes for a living. I'm not an eco warrior. I'm buying an EV because it's gonna save me 4k a year vs my current car.
reid0 t1_j1cughq wrote
It’s a damned good thing you’ve brought up this point that as I’m sure none of the thousands of businesses and engineers involved in designing, developing, building, distributing, maintaining and repairing these EVs would have ever considered.
I’m certain they will appreciate your learned and well informed concerns that aren’t at all laced with absurd nonsense fed to you by your chosen media sources who definitely aren’t backed by companies that stand to lose out in the shift to EVs.
And of course, anyone who would prefer to drive a car that is quieter, more efficient, requires less maintenance, has better tech, and allows them to refuel at home, overnight must definitely only be buying that car to show off how green they are.
It would be unbelievable to think that electric motors are already being designed which don’t require cobalt, or batteries which use sodium instead of lithium. Absurd! Impossible! Because nobody has ever considered your brilliant position that using more cobalt will increase the demand for it and that there are concerns about its sourcing.
And of course, the only possible way to get cobalt is through deadly child slave labour and that definitely could not possibly change despite the enormous potential income available to other mining companies that might want to get in on that windfall.
What sensible and original thoughts you offer us, oh learned one.
Strank t1_j1b5mss wrote
I mean, Australia (like Canada) is indeed highly oppressive if you're Indigenous
Five_bucks t1_j1bihlk wrote
Indigenous communities are chronically underserved and the history of the Crown-indigenous relationship on Canada is ghastly.
But 'highly oppressive' is a bit much.
rascible t1_j1bk4au wrote
The new plants at the Salton Sea should supply domestic demand for decades. It was on 60 minutes..
Pim_Hungers t1_j1b9guw wrote
Alberta
swordfish1221 t1_j1ap9ci wrote
Incentivizing people to charge at certain times is nothing but a way to make more money. It’s not going to change people’s habits.
MadCat360 t1_j1aq56z wrote
Source to any data that supports this? Varying toll prices has been mitigating traffic for decades, and doing so with significant effect.
swordfish1221 t1_j1axu1u wrote
You got a source varying toll prices have been used for mitigating traffic. IDK about the only time i go on tolls is when i go to work which i can’t control what time that is.
MadCat360 t1_j1azxwd wrote
The fact that you don't take toll roads when not going to work shows that it works dude. Tolls discourage use during certain times or using certain routes.
gburgwardt t1_j1arz3v wrote
What are you talking about, a way to make more money?
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of peak load?
swordfish1221 t1_j1ay1io wrote
The comment above was suggesting charging more money for charging your vehicle during peak load. Often times people have schedules and have places to be a certain times. Often people can’t chose what time they charge so rather than reduce load during peak times, they just make more money
gburgwardt t1_j1ay6gs wrote
That is not the power company’s problem, the whole point is to get you to change your lifestyle
swordfish1221 t1_j1aygcb wrote
You’re right fuck paying bills and commuting to remote areas to make a living.
gburgwardt t1_j1aylz2 wrote
If you choose a lifestyle that requires more resources yes you should pay for them
concerned_citizen128 t1_j1ay7ed wrote
Just have to setup schedules on chargers. Most EV owners charge at night, when they arrive home. If they changed rates, and set a cheaper rate for late night charging, I would simply schedule it on my charger.
Currently, I pay the same rate for electricity, no matter when I charge. This isn't difficult to do, and doesn't necessarily mean implementing penalties.
sepp_omek t1_j1adun7 wrote
-- signed, the oil industry
strontiumdogs t1_j1adzow wrote
Simply common sense.
sepp_omek t1_j1aeare wrote
simply a non-progressive way of looking at the future. do you think gas stations and tire stores popped up overnight when the automobile was introduced?
besides this is "new" vehicles, not "all" vehicles
neverlookdown77 t1_j1ahrh5 wrote
If the gov wants to roll out a gov funded program to install chargers everywhere ... including my 20 unit strata parking lot where no one wants to use strata contingency funds to build them ... then maybe it'll work.
Magannon1 t1_j1ak335 wrote
Exactly - the government also rolled out a government funded program decades ago to ensure that you have a gas station directly in your 20 unit strata parking lot too, I presume.
Unless, of course, you're not interacting here in good faith.
neverlookdown77 t1_j1akm95 wrote
It takes 5min to gas up for a week away from home. Nobody wants to hang out at a charge station, for an hour, a few blocks away to set themselves up.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see electric and hydrogen for the future. The vehicles are getting better.
Magannon1 t1_j1bxjam wrote
It takes literally 10-20 minutes at a charging station. People grab coffees while they wait.
Trust me, you're making this out to be a much bigger issue than it really is.
neverlookdown77 t1_j1c2dfk wrote
I don't think I'm being dramatic, and I'm happy to be proven wrong. There was a time when the charge time were longer.
Thanks for the updated info
genesiss23 t1_j1aj1th wrote
With gas stations, a person only needs 5 minutes to fill up. With electric vehicles, you need over a lot more time than that. If a person cannot charge at home, how will he or she charge? It's more complex due to the time aspect.
Jahobes t1_j1arolh wrote
That's a technology problem. It used to take way longer to pump gas back when you literally had to pump it.
Tesla's already charge hundreds of miles in 30-45 minutes and that number is getting smaller... That means you can sit and charge for 10 min and get plenty miles for local commutes.
red_sutter t1_j1bm5jw wrote
When they put gas pumps in the ground back in 1900 or whatever, it probably took people an hour to literally hand-pump it into their cars (which is probably why full-service stations where dudes did it for you became a thing.)
By 2040, 50, etc. They'll probably have fucking F-Zero power strips on the highway that read your neural implant credit chips for payment, making this whole debate irrelevant
Perfect_Opposite2113 t1_j1ajlec wrote
Over a lot but less than a little.
dubiousadvocate t1_j1bzl2g wrote
You don’t actually have to charge to the maximum capacity the battery lets you.
[deleted] t1_j1ajl6g wrote
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genesiss23 t1_j1alk9e wrote
The issue is to provide the same about of service a gas station does in a day, the equivalent ev charging station will need significantly more chargers. The issue is infrastructure and unless there is a solid, funded plan on how to deal with it, you shouldn't mandate anything. You can end up destroying yourself, so to speak.
Also, all the car manufacturers use a standard charger, except one, and that is Tesla. They need to be forced to use the standard charger.
bluebreez1 t1_j1aspbi wrote
HOW ARE CARS EVER GONNA WORK? THERE SRE NO ROADS. NO GAS STATION. NO PARK. THEYRE DIRTY. MY HORSE WORKS JUST FINE THANKS.
- the guy you’re replying to in 1912
dubiousadvocate t1_j1bzcs8 wrote
To be fair, no matter how drunk great-great grandpa got the horse got him home. The first self driving transport! 🤣
Looptydude t1_j1agato wrote
Ford, one of the largest car manufacturers in North America is struggling to keep up with F150 and Maverick hybrid production and the Freaking F150 Lightning too.
Connect-Speaker t1_j1avhk8 wrote
Not insane. They’re calling for just 20% of 2026 sales to be EV.
WaterIsGolden t1_j1caokm wrote
You are asking logical questions. The world is focused on emotional ideals.
Infidelc123 t1_j1b68v5 wrote
Power over here in Nova Scotia goes out if someone farts too loudly, what the hell would the good of electric only be with such an unstable shit heap of a power grid?
Five_bucks t1_j1bjwdw wrote
If designed intelligently, an ev could supply a house with enough power for several days.
Coupled with a smart electric grid we could have a lot more security in power availability.
Connect-Speaker t1_j1dxa6j wrote
Interesting point.
F1reatwill88 t1_j1ajwm6 wrote
When it gets bad enough Canada will just tell people to kill their cars, problem solved.
moosehornman t1_j1amn17 wrote
More dumb ass laws being put in place by the Trudeau liberals....SMH 😔
Delicious-Tachyons t1_j1ayvgj wrote
how the hell can they say that 20% have to be electric? so if for a given year for Ford, they've sold millions of cars, the vast majority of which are gasoline, you get to november and it's "nope we can only sell electric to meet our quota" for the rest of the year? or do they mean sales from manufacturer to dealership?
1StationaryWanderer t1_j1b5n8u wrote
My thoughts exactly. “Oh you budgeted 30k for a new car? Well sorry we can only sell you a 50k EV instead!” I’m all for EVs but they shouldn’t be forced down people’s throats. There’s a lot of good use cases for EVs but also for ICE cars as well.
Depending on when my current car dies, it will either be an EV (later) or regular car (dies soon). Just not enough infrastructure today around here. I know that will quickly change though.
RaycharlesN t1_j1b53g4 wrote
They’ll sell fleet vehicles or lease them at a loss if they have to, to get their quota of EVs in. It’s why they used high mpg cars as loss leaders for years
Delicious-Tachyons t1_j1b8zqn wrote
sweet
faizimam t1_j1bt5gm wrote
13% of all cars sold in bc and 11% of cars in Québec in 2022 were Evs.
Increasing that to 20% isn't much of a stretch.
Both those provinces already have minimum sales requirements for Evs, so companies allocate more models there.
But production is increasing rapidly, so hitting that number nationally is not as crazy as you'd think.
WhichWitchIsWhitch t1_j1cpzfm wrote
Especially with gas prices where they're at and more electric trucks hitting the market
Delicious-Tachyons t1_j1bu0r7 wrote
well i think it's a good thing... as long as there are enough charging stations and the stations aren't abused
Dick-Wrinkle t1_j1cl5uz wrote
Ignore winnipeg then, nothing stays as it was here
Cant even have bus shacks
moosefart2022 t1_j1an9hh wrote
If their charging infrastructure is anything like the USA then they’d better get moving on beefing it up.
NevyTheChemist t1_j1aan52 wrote
You better be.able to get one in a reasonable timeframe.
RandomActOfMindless t1_j1aevs3 wrote
Sales. People with gas vehicles will still be able to use them.
[deleted] t1_j1ahobp wrote
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Cichlid-man t1_j1cbshp wrote
I heard there will be long wait list for new Prius and Prius Prime too. I do not understand why Toyota hadn't planned for this.
barsoapguy t1_j1c852y wrote
Fives years whistles
canuckcowgirl t1_j1af5uv wrote
Hubs and I had a heated garage built this past summer and we had an EV plug installed not because we have an electric car but for resale value.
Tyler_Durden69420 t1_j1byn5d wrote
Husband*
sesamebagels_0158373 t1_j1c7n4v wrote
If only they could mandate affordable housing :(
Brief-Floor-7228 t1_j1afwaw wrote
I really hope for one of those Canoo Ev pickups. Hopefully they get to market soon and at the price they were initially stated at.
ClubSoda t1_j1d4624 wrote
In what universe are these officials living in that they think batteries will work in Canada's extremely harsh frigid climate? This is political pandering.
TheThirdOutlier t1_j1ae7yi wrote
Kinda sudden
strontiumdogs t1_j1aeics wrote
How naive. Just answer the one about people in high rise buildings.
ngwoo t1_j1b07mu wrote
How do people in high rise buildings fuel their car now without the gas pump that all homeowners have in their garage
Dazzling-Ad4701 t1_j1bi9k9 wrote
To start off, I'll just say that I'm all about this idea. I don't think we have any alternative to getting off the fossil fuels.
Now I've said that:. I think the query about apartment/condo dwellers doesneed to be addressed, although I don't think it's insurmountable. I fuel my current car at a gas station of, but it takes me 5-10 minutes. Idk how long charging takes, but I assume it's too long for the gas station parallel to work.
As I said, I think there can be answers. Just don't think ”gas station" is the answer.
bigcaprice t1_j1cb03q wrote
If you absolutely can't charge where you live the answer is wherever people drive with their cars. I rented an EV for a week. I was concerned about charging because where I was staying didn't have a suitable outlet. I ended up charging at the grocery store for a half hour while I was shopping. It was way more convenient than a gas station. Took 10 seconds to plug in and it was ready when I was done.
dadude100 t1_j1b5y9n wrote
When I lived in an apt my stall had a plug…. I’m guessing it’s pretty common, if not they can always retrofit. Hassle, but not a dealbreaker.
koosley t1_j1bvg63 wrote
You can always go to a traditional super charger if absolutely necessary as well. They take a bit longer than a gas station but they're available. Destination chargers exist at many of the major shopping centers or grocery stores or restaurants.
There is so many ways to solve this problem depending on your life style. People just have to breakout of the gas station analogy and think of them more as cell phones. A majority of the time you'll just do it over night. Other times you just pop them in the charging boxes at target and shop while it charges.
AccomplishedBrain309 t1_j1awkc6 wrote
Credit card operated.
[deleted] t1_j1aey8k wrote
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UrbanArcologist t1_j1aiq64 wrote
I live in apartment, not a big deal. Not like people have gas stations at home.
Being able to charge at home is something gas cars cannot match, fast charging isn't a problem at all.
[deleted] t1_j1ajz6m wrote
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Jahobes t1_j1as70y wrote
Far out. I mean how do you even park your car without a dedicated parking spot? Lmao
If you can't charge from home then you will just have to charge at public chargers.
[deleted] t1_j1asqqg wrote
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mattbuford t1_j1b9cpr wrote
What are you going to be doing that you expect to spend hours at the 15-20 minute charger? Slow multi-hour chargers do exist. Those are the ones you use when you're not waiting. When you are waiting, you use the fast charger.
But really, the answer is to put in chargers where the on-street parking is. Then you don't have to wait.
Or, if you reeeeeeealy can't do either of the above for some reason, then you may be a good candidate to buy a hybrid. The EV mandate allows new hybrids to be sold.
[deleted] t1_j1bd6pe wrote
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mattbuford t1_j1bh0e7 wrote
Probably the most common mistake people make when looking at EV charging is asking how long for a full charge and then thinking that's how long they will spend waiting, either charging in town or during cross country trips. The answer for a full charge is I don't know, because getting a full charge is an action that no sane person would do while waiting, except perhaps in a few rare circumstances where they are desperate for every mile of range they can get. The way you charge EVs is that you almost never charge above 80% when you're waiting. 5% to 80% is quick. 80% to 100% takes forever. Just charge to 80% and leave and get on with your life. Only charge above 80% when you're not waiting (busy eating at a restaurant while the car charges, or sleeping, or whatever).
There are older tech EVs that can not fast charge, or that have a very slow idea of fast charging, but it's safe to assume that by the time any of these EV mandates kick in that newer model years will be even faster. The situation today is very different from 2 years ago, and the situation 2 years in the future will be very different from now.
In general, EVs are a bit more convenient for day-to-day life when you're not on a road trip (never wait at all in your home area, not even the 5 minutes a gas car takes, because it just charges while you sleep), and a bit less convenient on road trips (maybe 10% slower travel time).
A lot of the snark is just frustration. There are tons of EV owners traveling across the continent every day without issue. But every single social media post about EVs ends up brigaded with a hundred replies saying something like "LOL imagine driving across the country! You could only go 100 miles a day, then you'd have to get a hotel for your 12 hour recharge!" Never mind that there are already plenty of EVs already doing NYC to LA in under 48 hours. It's easy to get jaded at all the replies saying the same false things over and over again. While there are some people, like yourself, that are interested in actually learning, most of them quickly make it clear that they're not interested in learning at all. It's hard to tell them apart until you're a few replies in. :)
UrbanArcologist t1_j1aoh5a wrote
lol...
[deleted] t1_j1at50e wrote
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UrbanArcologist t1_j1ek74a wrote
dude I rent in the city... go f' yourself
strontiumdogs t1_j1aj2s8 wrote
I'm not sure you understand the question. Never mind tho. Let's just make everyone but EV's and forget about it.
UrbanArcologist t1_j1aotdn wrote
I charge my car when I go shopping most times, it's not a problem.
CoolTamale t1_j1aqho6 wrote
"Hey everyone it works for me so it'll be great!"
UrbanArcologist t1_j1az3ty wrote
just don't buy a shitty EV
[deleted] t1_j1bcolk wrote
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derKestrel t1_j1ahivq wrote
Electric buses, trams and bikes.
If you live in a high rise, at least here, you are in the inner city and have your choice of bus, tram bike or even walk.
Most of my colleagues live in the inner city and have commutes under 10km and do not use their cars, if they even own one. And money is not the issue for them (work is related to legal matters). And while I do own a car, I drive less than 5k km per year with it, most of this to visit family about 600km away. I don't use it to commute.
strontiumdogs t1_j1aitb4 wrote
Lucky you. Unfortunately I live in a high rise 30km from work. As do thousands more. Believe me I'd love EV to be practical for all vehicle users. I just don't believe we are ready yet to enforce a doctrine for everyone. I know they say for new cars but they just make it impossible to get older cars through emissions checks etc. Anyone on a low income may never be able to afford an EV. What do they do. Get priced out of travel. Plus few places have cheap public transport.
derKestrel t1_j1cn12l wrote
And because your country favoured individual traffic, you cannot get around without a car. I do understand that.
My personal experience is limited to certain regions of Germany, France, The Netherlands, Japan, and China, all of which had more or less comfortable connections for public transport from high rise areas to working places.
But you might also have noticed that the demand is for a percentage of new sales to be EV, so not a hard cut off. There will be pressure to enable public transport and to build cheaper or different personnel transport solutions.
Your argumentation, while probably 100% valid now in your case, is ignoring the pressures on society this law will cause. Our way of living has to change, but we will have to see how well we deal with the change.
strontiumdogs t1_j1cnz98 wrote
Well put. Let's hope governments are willing and able to invest in the public transport required. However as a person of age, I find public transport good to a point. I start work at 4 am when there is no public transport what so ever. Also it's not great for things like shopping and moving my family around. I'd love to be environmentally sound, but the way life in general is set up it needs more evolutionary time or huge investment. Which I'm not sure government or people in general can provide quickly.
derKestrel t1_j1cqlfk wrote
One of the many problems is that we have been pushing the problem in front of us for so long, while it becomes just more and more urgent and almost exponentially more expensive the longer we wait.
strontiumdogs t1_j1cquz1 wrote
I couldn't agree more.
MidianFootbridge69 t1_j1aw24o wrote
>Anyone on a low income may never be able to afford an EV. What do they do. Get priced out of travel. Plus few places have cheap public transport.
Exactly.
swordfish1221 t1_j1apdx2 wrote
Idk taking a bike in -40 blizzard doesn’t sound fun.
derKestrel t1_j1cn5eq wrote
My experience is limited to Germany, The Netherlands, Japan, China and France, only down to -10 Celsius.
Biking in the snow is never a good solution, unless you have spikes.
MidianFootbridge69 t1_j1avrhc wrote
There is also the issue of those of us that live in Rural Areas in high rise Buildings.
Our Public Transportation sucks (runs from 6am-6pm) and doesn't frequently go out of Town.
No Commuter Rail.
Riding a Bike can be dangerous around here too, lol and Disabled People will have a tough time walking to and fro (if they can walk at all).
There are a lot more variations of that theme.
derKestrel t1_j1cno5g wrote
That is a major failure of city planning.
A law introducing electric transport by rising percentages will definitely put pressure for change on the situation. Here's to hope for better connections for you.
In the regions of China, Japan, Germany, Netherlands and France I have lived in, High Rise areas were always connected at least somewhat decently.
strontiumdogs t1_j1afobc wrote
Can you reference this study please. I'd like to read it. Thank you.
Stormcrow6666 t1_j1bkrfo wrote
I'm sure Brett Wilson and Theo Fleury are ecstatic !!!
403tatts t1_j1c5353 wrote
No thanks. I will buy an electric vehicle once they figure out the range problems, especially in -30c and below temps.
bearhaas t1_j1dyj88 wrote
How far you going? I just drove 430 miles to home in 5F weather. Stopped to charge twice. About as often as I needed to pee.
northcrunk t1_j1cm94e wrote
Morons. There’s been warnings because out electrical load is nearing max and they are warning about brown outs in -40 but let’s all more load to the system that can’t handle it. We are governed by children
dentistshatehim t1_j1cwsf2 wrote
Can you source that, it sounds like bullshit
dentistshatehim t1_j1e26b6 wrote
It’s tough to use Alberta, conservatives has underfunded every bit of infrastructure for decades. See the roads there.
In Ontario and Quebec there is excess power generated that is sold to the US
northcrunk t1_j1e52vq wrote
Ontario and Quebec’s excess energy is from Hydro which isn’t an option. The roads are not really bad here and I would say Toronto roads are in way worse shape than Calgary. The NDP and the conservatives have both failed to build the capacity we need if we expect so many people to start going EV. Brownouts shouldn’t even have to be considered in this country with the resources we have and it’s embarrassing that it is.
bearhaas t1_j1dyplq wrote
Exactly! What’s wrong with coal?! Can’t we get back to the good ole days?!
northcrunk t1_j1e4n1v wrote
Smh. We need more capacity and nobody is building coal plants anymore. It’s all natural gas
bearhaas t1_j1ec20u wrote
Burn the dinosaurs! Yahooooo! fires off pistols
northcrunk t1_j1fji6h wrote
So what people should just freeze to death in -40?
bearhaas t1_j1fjvai wrote
Burn the dinosaurs for warmth too!!!! Yeeehawwww barrage of pistols in the air
__The__Anomaly__ t1_j1abu1s wrote
As someone who made the switch this year, I'm happy to hear it.
TheThirdDumpling t1_j1b4m9j wrote
How are they solving range issues?
DrJupeman t1_j1b72b6 wrote
Particularly in cold temps.
Tyler_Durden69420 t1_j1bywvb wrote
Fly in a jet fuel powered plane if it’s a long trip?
[deleted] t1_j1b735f wrote
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diddlemeonthetobique t1_j1b7it3 wrote
Our next 'set of wheels' is going to be two electric trike bikes and city transit in the winter when it is unsafe to ride the bikes. As seniors and having everything we need pretty close at hand, (we live in a small city with bike trail systems throughout) going through the expense, cost of follow on vehicle extra expenses makes it the logical next step for us. Many of our friends, like us, don't plan to ever own another car. We travel a bit but mostly longer hauls to see family once or twice a year. When they come to visit they can rent a vehicle.
bigorangemachine t1_j1bgfa3 wrote
This is exactly why I pre ordered the pick up truck :)
I figured it was only a matter of time until its mandated & they start charging people for having gas-cars.
Connect-Speaker t1_j1boi3y wrote
That day is way far away. This mandate only affects 20% of new car sales in 2026. Not used cars.
And you’re already charged for having a gas car. You pay fuel taxes. Those will likely increase steadily, though, so you’re not incorrect.
Good move on the truck.
bigorangemachine t1_j1bq7ii wrote
Oh for sure.
I have a car that is 15 years old now.
They say its better to keep the car you have then get anything new including an EV.
For me... I had to look 5 years ahead and the best way to incentivize people to get ride of their gas-vehicles is to use financial incentives. In Ontario the whole emissions test thing was a huge cash grab but it fixed that problem of no one fixing their engine knocks. So if its gonna take 2-5 years to deliver a new EV... 5 years after that to put some BS fee on gas vehicles.. by year 10 (most vehicle life-spans) it'll end up saving me money
To clarify I got the EV-Pickup-Truck. Its the cheapest projected EV.
dubiousadvocate t1_j1by0zv wrote
EVs typically break even with their ICE counterparts around 12k miles in terms of fuel costs. It takes longer for total break even costs simply because there is far less regular maintenance with EVs.
bigorangemachine t1_j1c4tkf wrote
Ya but they gonna do BS where you can't drive ICE vehicles in cities.
Big cities already have a war on cars as is.
As it is a EV can fully recharge on 20$ where I live. There is zero maintenance costs year over year.
You can take the current setup and it accept it in the current situation but with countries signing up for emission reductions they'll use it to charge ICE power trains to equalize the cost to incentivize EVs in some areas.
Where I live its clear that's the direction is going and I'm not going to "fight the fed".
Even if I'm wrong I test drove an EV and even if it costs more in the long term its so much more fun to drive. The acceleration is unreal. I don't care about top speed... for the cost of a Mercedes I can accelerate like a ferrari for the energy cost of a fiat. The cost benefit LGTM
dubiousadvocate t1_j1c5gs7 wrote
And it costs much less lifetime cost of ownership so you’re golden all around. 😉
bigorangemachine t1_j1c7ru7 wrote
Again "don't fight the fed"
Don't get me wrong. I think they'll price things in regionally so EVs don't make sense it'll be more expensive given local considerations. But oil is still a pyramid scheme. If everyone isn't buying in oil gets more expensive. Batteries have so much potential to get better.
Its now a game of energy musical chairs. If you are willing to bet energy transmission/generation gets better it makes sense.
If that plan fails you still own a vehicle thats fun to drive and at least I tried to help climate change rather than go "well it gonna cost me too much money meeeeeeeenh". I'd rather try and fail rather than give up before trying.
[deleted] t1_j1cdbrv wrote
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712Chandler t1_j1cffh8 wrote
If Canada wasn’t so cold, I would pledge my allegiance to the Maple leaf.
Gigi_Nori t1_j1cg72j wrote
Everyone's talking about charging infrastructure but the funny thing is that, for most people, keeping your EV charged wouldn't be a huge hassle. We're already used to plugging our cell phones in at night while we sleep. You don't actually need to plug your EV into a fast charger.
Let's say you get home from work around 7pm, usually, and you need to leave in the morning at 7am, so that's 12 hours of charging time per day, on average. Some days you might have less. But that's okay, because some days you might have more.
Now let's say you plug your EV into an outlet in your garage and have it draw power at the same rate as a space heater, so 2 KW. 12x2 = 24 KWH. The best EV's today get 4 miles per KWH, but let's go with a more average number of 3. 24 x 3 = 72. So in this scenario you would need to drive more than 72 miles per day to not be able to regain that electricity at night by charging your car.
Obviously this doesn't work for everyone. Not everyone has a garage, and some people drive more than 72 miles per day, but my point is that for a very large percentage of drivers, quite likely more than 50%, simply plugging your EV into an outlet when you get home would be enough to keep it charged and you wouldn't need any special infrastructure.
​
Now, if half the population starts drawing an extra 24 KWH per day that will put a strain on the power grid but that's another topic and a different problem.
FireblastU t1_j1erjyl wrote
You guys can’t even afford a house and your splurging on electric vehicles?
Dutchman1941 t1_j1awhc6 wrote
Wait till the central part of Canada hears about it.
KptKreampie t1_j1b5hnt wrote
Aparently the manly men on the right take this as a blow to their fragile manhood. Snowflake J Prterson ain't having none of it lol!
strontiumdogs t1_j1af5ri wrote
You don't have to fill up a gas car overnight to make it worth having.
scalenesquare t1_j1arp1e wrote
Lol 2036 is aggressive. 2026? Cmon now.
Connect-Speaker t1_j1av8jm wrote
It’s only 20% of sales in 2026 that need to be EV. Not 100%.
Erectedbeard t1_j1aze3b wrote
more cobalt slaves for hire to make sure these companies can sell expensive cars. just think of the congo when you buy a phone or a car. cobalt is 100% slave labour
homebuyer99 t1_j1b2ww8 wrote
Exactly. If countries want to make to switch to EV it must be with 0% slaves.
Let’s make this a thing!
Connect-Speaker t1_j1dxvtp wrote
I’m picturing a future EV car commercial: “Now with 0 % slaves!”
Edit: then fine print at the bottom “…on select 2029 models only.”
YeahIveDoneThat t1_j1bh31z wrote
Yikes. Imagine the government telling you that you MUST have a car that uses cobalt from modern day slavery and child labor. Yikes, indeed.
dentistshatehim t1_j1cwvk4 wrote
Read the article.
Dwintan t1_j1aeyyo wrote
And when our lower temperatures keep coming, only the older cars will work!
RandomActOfMindless t1_j1afarn wrote
I'm seeing Teslas all over the place and it's been -40 here
Perfect_Opposite2113 t1_j1ak0sm wrote
Edmonton Alberta here where it’s been sub -40c all week. Can confirm. Teslas everywhere.
Phallibos t1_j1amd32 wrote
Presumably the people who can afford a Tesla can also afford a garage to park it in. I don't know how EV battery chemistry works but I'd hazard a guess that leaving them outside and relying on a block heater probably isn't great for longevity.
RandomActOfMindless t1_j1ara70 wrote
I'll tell you one thing though. I've seen quite a few vehicles stranded on the road, but none of them were Teslas.
zenzukai t1_j1ay2qv wrote
Battery temperature control.
Perfect_Opposite2113 t1_j1amqp1 wrote
Presumably the technology will improve but I know some people aren’t interested in moving ahead with civilization which requires innovation.
Edit. Stop downvoting me ya bunch of Luddite’s. Lol
Dazzling-Ad4701 t1_j1bjhfw wrote
There are a lot of people who don't have the leeway in their day-to-day lives, to juggle yet more expense and logistics while kinks get worked out. If you do have that leeway, awesome and I do mean that. Over time the whole thing will become normalized and accessible, and that's what we want.
In the meantime it's clearly still a contentious subject and smugness is no more helpful than knee jerk resistance.
Perfect_Opposite2113 t1_j1c0v12 wrote
Well alrighty then.
DrJupeman t1_j1b70mk wrote
Parked? Lol.
Perfect_Opposite2113 t1_j1b7an1 wrote
No. Passing all the jacked up trucks that are in the ditch because losers can’t drive.
gaunt79 t1_j1ai25l wrote
Celsius or Fahrenheit? (/s)
CheesyBadger t1_j1bdn5v wrote
Lol nice crossover point joke 🤣
Connect-Speaker t1_j1auzjn wrote
The ‘mandate’ is that 20% of sales be EVs in 2026, not 100%. Everybody cool your jets