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Lollerscooter t1_j5ozlc6 wrote

Neutrality = War profiteering


Alphabadg3r t1_j5r3eg9 wrote

I'm unsure so someone correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't medicine one of the things not sanctioned?


ernyc3777 t1_j5rcs40 wrote

That would make sense. The people of Russia don’t need Coca Cola or an Audi.

But they can’t go without their diabetes medications or cancer treatment.


Temporala t1_j5sgog2 wrote

Probably not, and it's one dumb af thing to sanction.

I fully consider any politician wanting to do that to be pretty much a murderer. Food, water, medicine, basic shelters and such should not be sanctioned, under any circumstances.


deepfield67 t1_j5shvgm wrote

If we could only figure out a way to prevent only government officials from getting food, water, and medicine...


EnricoPallazzo-- t1_j5ssvwf wrote

While definitely immoral and the last thing you probably would wanna sanction but that’s about it.

The way Russia is targetting civilians and civillian infrastructure, weaponizing food etc; which threatens the survivability of the Ukrainian and poor countries around the world and would be quite similar here, so shipping medicine to Russia is just taking a moral high stance.

Putin is a sympton of a larger problem in Russia so the population is not blameless. Possible suffering among the Russian population is not really a high priority for those in charge there and shouldn’t really be for western leaders either.


Antonio_is_better t1_j5sprch wrote

It's nothing economical sanctions don't already do indirectly. Why is it the Wests responsibility to keep Russias fascist population alive?


Zandonus t1_j5sy8no wrote

Prisons don't kill people, people kill people.


hansobolo t1_j5t826j wrote

The goal of the sanctions is to punish the population. In a democracy civilians are guilty of the crimes of the state.


and_dont_blink t1_j5r5i61 wrote

Eh, medicine isn't under sanctions. I'm not sure what the alternative would be or you're hoping or, and I say that as someone who has hated how Europe half-halfheartedly went into sanctions with all kinds of exemptions most weren't aware of. The west aren't ogres, and we aren't targeting civilians.

There are still children in Russia that are undergoing surgeries and need medications, the fact that Russia is bombing hospitals doesn't mean we should target them as well. Sanctions should be even harder, we had governments saying they wouldn't pay in rubles publicly while telling their banks to go ahead privately -- but in this case the Swiss simply exported pharma more than they did other things, so they're fairing better than others that exported rifle scopes.


Fallacy_Spotted t1_j5r4z86 wrote

As a person with morals, fuck Russia and glory to Ukraine. Also as a person with morals, sell Russia more Cancer medication if it can help innocent people with Cancer because fuck Cancer. These aren't conflicting positions.


Fox_Kurama t1_j5ry3jn wrote

Indeed. And lets be real. ANY of those medicines being sold are not actually making it to conscripts anyway. It is going to those who actually pay for the medicines they need because they are well enough off or scrounging what they can to get medicine.

The enlisted/conscripted are often having to buy clothing, armor, and even weapons. They have no budget for meds other than a nice pain-killing vodka.


oroechimaru t1_j5r6s3o wrote

Not really up until today they were blocking other countries from sending Swiss made ammo

Medicine is not sanctioned by the west


baryluk t1_j5t7ilw wrote

So you are trying to tell me US, Germany, France, Poland, Czech, Finland , none of them sell medicine to Russia?


Nonsense_Producer t1_j5tv7c6 wrote

Age old Swiss tradition. Trading with Nazis, no problem. Trading with fascist Russia, no problem.


JimTheSaint t1_j5w5jpm wrote

Medicine is not in any of the sanctions packages.


amircruz t1_j5sfmcx wrote

Just like how this country became a stronghold for bankers and money laundry during and after WW2… these dudes. Anyways, greets


1nfinitydividedby0 t1_j5q6b0o wrote

They sell medicine, how is it war profiteering?


slow_connection t1_j5qd5gi wrote

It's profiteering if the swiss are selling medicine to Russia at a markup under the guise of "neutrality" when others have sanctioned Russia and refuse to sell to them.

I don't know if that's the case right now because I'll admit that I didn't read the article, but I do know what profiteering is


oroechimaru t1_j5r6wgi wrote

Selling medicine isnt sanctioned

Swiss blocking ammo from other countries for a year was a sin


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smigglesworth t1_j5r17sf wrote

The Swiss take it to a new level. Swimming in nazi gold.


Cenom t1_j5s515e wrote

Sweden and Norway responsible for 85% of the belic raw material used by Germany but Swiss are the evil for taking their gold


smigglesworth t1_j5tdemn wrote

The thing is neither Sweden nor Norway constantly advertise their supposed neutrality conflict after conflict. It’s not neutral though, it’s greed.

Do you have a few more whataboutisms to add?


Cenom t1_j5tdxry wrote

Dude, Swiss bought gold, but you can't do shit with money if Norway and Sweden didn't sell iron to Germany. Without iron there would be no war, no guns, no tanks. It's not whataboutism in this case, we are talking about the same thing.


smigglesworth t1_j5tjekf wrote

So we agree that the Swiss are hypocrites with their claims to neutrality and in fact are greedy? Didn’t need the detour to other countries to confirm that.


[deleted] t1_j5tpg83 wrote



smigglesworth t1_j5tw6iq wrote

I think India has shown they are patently not neutral in the Ukraine - Russia conflict. They support Russia. Similar to how the Swiss supported the Nazis.

There is nuance, sure, but the basic facts are clear.


tonytony87 t1_j5pc58q wrote

Then what is your vision for neutrality? To not sell anything at all to anyone? Or two sell to everyone? Because picking a side and not selling to someone seems like the opposite of neutrality


shooowan t1_j5phnr7 wrote

Not to speak for OP, but I'm pretty sure they're not saying that there's a "better" or "more correct" kind of neutrality. They're implying that remaining neutral in situations like this has moral implications


tonytony87 t1_j5rt39a wrote

That I can get behind, and that is a statement that makes much more sense. If a country says we have a moral obligation to not do business with you and we will suffer the consequences then yea I’m all for that.

But if a country says we will remain neutral and no matter the moral conundrums our people and our business remain #1 priority we can’t afford to not do business then I can also respect that too ya know?

I don’t think it’s 100% fair to shit in them one way or the other. It’s a damned if they do, damned if they don’t. And I think people gotta also take that into account


Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j5r3t7w wrote

“If you invade we won’t deal with you during it.” Pretty neutral. Doesn’t take a side or support the opposition it only changes something for the instigators through lack of action rather than action itself.


tonytony87 t1_j5rledf wrote

I like It, agree it could be a good work around but I do see a downside, now their industry is tied to another country’s politics, which could be extremely unstable no?

Because now they lose out on money and business just because two countries are at war, which seems unfair to the neutral country no?


ThrowAwayAway755 t1_j5slwe8 wrote

I mean, I hope you’re not talking within the context of the article. Medicine should never be denied, to any country


Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j6fho3u wrote

We can agree to disagree. If the country is Russia right now I don’t see moral qualms with limiting drug exports aside from specifics which are not produced in Russia at all or with a sufficient alternative. The west right now is trying to, rightfully, destroy Russian industry and economy. That directly hurts individual Russians. So does limiting medicine imports. Just because you don’t have to acknowledge that poorer areas of Russia are seeing malnutrition and worse life conditions right now from the other sanctions doesn’t mean it’s not what we are causing (tbh Putin causing it all through unjustified aggression and slaughter). That’s because individual Russian make up the Russian economy and therefore the war machine. It’s the whole point of sanctions. Did y’all really think this wasn’t hurting Russian citizens and causing some to skip or miss meals?


ThrowAwayAway755 t1_j6fn5el wrote

Disrupting medical care (even to enemy soldiers, let alone) to civilians is a war crime. That’s not up for debate.

War crimes committed by one side do not necessarily justify war crimes by the other.

Hurting civilians economically is not morally equivalent to withholding medications. It’s just not.

I understand why you feel the way that you do, but your judgement is being clouded by your emotions.


WarriorData t1_j5oy9cn wrote

Nazi Gold and now this. This neutrality is a sham.


joho999 t1_j5ozu2z wrote

Medication is not subject to sanctions, i am guessing more countries that Switzerland are selling them medication.


kilroy211 t1_j5su1xt wrote

I would think India sells Russia much more meds than Switzerland (by volume at least … maybe not by retail value).


YouStylish1 t1_j5syq23 wrote

>I would think India sells Russia much more meds than Switzerland

India also sends medical supplies to Ukraine FOC...


Ceratisa t1_j5oyj34 wrote

When you profit from either side like this it isn't neutrality. It's just opportunistic profiteering


tonytony87 t1_j5pc0jz wrote

Then what would be neutrality? To pick a side and not sell them drugs? Or to stop selling drugs to everyone? What then is neutrality?


NemeanMiniLion t1_j5q9su1 wrote

You know.... Maybe you don't do business with any countries at war. Total removal from the equation.


Diltyrr t1_j5rrbz0 wrote

We tried that with weapons and that didn't go well either.


hiricinee t1_j5qdzmh wrote

It's not like they stopped selling and banking with the rest of the world. We are big fans of the Swiss when there's not a conflict.


No_Charge6060 t1_j5ph4h0 wrote

What about Toblerone I hope this monster mountains are not still on sale at Moscow airport.


TurkeyLuver t1_j5p3gv4 wrote

Medicine is example exempt from sanctions. Why are people upset?


Astavri t1_j5s52zs wrote

Because they are ignorant on what that means if they don't provide medicine to Russia.

It isn't some medicine to make super soldiers. It's medicine to help kids and civilians, and yes, it may help their military people as well, from getting sick and dying.


NeurodiverseTurtle t1_j5p9vb8 wrote

Because they’re doing business with a terrorist regime. Simple as that.


Turtlehead88 t1_j5puv4q wrote

Just say you want to withhold medicine from the Russian people. You’re just beating around the bush.


Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j5r48nx wrote

I don’t think they want that. They want no business done with Russia, and any unfortunate examples of such “no business” is just blood on the hands of the Russian leadership.


Turtlehead88 t1_j5r4lpm wrote

You can’t just ignore the consequences of a policy. There are specific exemptions in the sanctions for this very reason


Culverin t1_j5rcaqc wrote

That seems fine to say right?

Stop your people from killing Ukranian children and raping Ukranian women and you get your medicine.

You want to be treated with civility? Then act civilized.


Turtlehead88 t1_j5rcl10 wrote

That can have unintended consequences. Total war is a great way to push the public to rally around their leader.


Culverin t1_j5t1ufh wrote

Absolutely I agree with those unintended consequences that could happen. Doesn't mean they will though.

I'm the same way Russian people want to be part of the modern western world, they are accountable for their own country. They swarmed and waited for hours when McDonald's came to Russia. At the end of the day, they do understand western products, science and medicine.


titan1655 t1_j5qjsh8 wrote

Did you call the US a terrorist regime when they attacked North Korean, Vietnam, funded terrorism in Afghanistan, invaded Afghanistan, invaded Iraq, funded military militia in South American countries, is funding Israel even though they are committing similar crimes in Palestina as Russia is doing in Ukraine?

If you did, then you have the right to call Russia a terrorist regime. If not, you have no right to call any countries regime a terrorist regime, especially if you are an US citizen (I don't know if you are).


ThrowAwayAway755 t1_j5v993m wrote

There are SO many blatant mischaracterizations and false comparisons in your statement that it’s not even worth my time. But I must comment that the situation in Israel regarding Palestinians is NOT AT ALL comparable to the situation between Russia and Ukraine. I’m not taking sides in that conflict, I’m simply looking at the reality of that situation. You would have to be ignorant of all the facts of each situation to even make that comparison. Go read about history and FACTS, and shut your inflammatory, ignorant blowhole


WealthyMarmot t1_j5ss0as wrote

> North Korean, Vietnam

Without making any comment on the morality of the prosecution of the wars after they'd begun, both North Korea and North Vietnam were the aggressors against US allies, not the other way around.

> invaded Iraq

The first time was a international UN-sanctioned operation, the second was less defensible but let's not make false equivalencies between Iraq and Ukraine, given that Iraq was led by probably the single worst mass-murderer on the planet.

> is funding Israel even though they are committing similar crimes in Palestina as Russia is doing in Ukraine

There we go with the false equivalencies again. When has anything like Bucha ever happened in Palestine? And that happened in the first month of the war.


ThrowAwayAway755 t1_j5va7ct wrote

Thank you for caring about facts. The claims made about the US are highly inflammatory and misleading, but the patently-false comparison to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the most ignorant part of OP’s entire diatribe, because the situations are entirely different in so many ways. In fact, it demonstrates that OP is unable to distinguish between Russian propaganda and objective reality.


Astavri t1_j5s6ndn wrote

Some of those don't really count, specifically N Korea and Israel.

But Hiroshima sure was an act of terrorism as well as a means to eliminate the enemy's military.


IGargleGarlic t1_j5qsahv wrote

ok vatnik go watch some Russian state tv and cry yourself to sleep over the thousands of dead Russian troops


titan1655 t1_j5s87cm wrote

I'm not Russian or have any sympathy for the Russian regime. I'm just really tired of the hypocrisy of people like you.


Good-Internet-7500 t1_j5pv1bz wrote

You know that Ukraine is still getting paid for gas transit from Russia? You gonna stay with your statement?


ThrowAwayAway755 t1_j5sm1kx wrote

Medicine shouldn’t even be denied to a terrorist regime. There are innocent children in Russia that need certain medications to be alive


TurkeyLuver t1_j5pa14u wrote

Shouldn’t you be mad at western governments for exempting medicine then? Seems like a logical exemption to me.


NeurodiverseTurtle t1_j5pau1v wrote

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. (Regarding selling medicines)

This is only about profit and appeasement.


TurkeyLuver t1_j5pbzk6 wrote

And people dying without medication. You forgot about that.


Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j5r4mb8 wrote

Russia could leave? That’s literally what sanctions are: turning the screws on a country so that there’s no war and the government still has to choose between their people/economy/etc and continuing the action that invited the sanctions.

Everyone freaking out over this but have no problem with sanctions that reduce the food in the mouths of the youth i affected countries. It’s the same thing and still the most peaceful path.


TurkeyLuver t1_j5r4ubf wrote

The goal of the sanctions isn’t for everyday Russian people to die. Which sanction is killing people?


NeurodiverseTurtle t1_j5pd5op wrote

Russia is engaged in a war of aggression, the Russian people will pay the price for that as long as they remain in Ukraine. You forgot about that.


fuqqkevindurant t1_j5qvn55 wrote

So you prefer the outcome in which more people die and face lifelong health consequences? Totally not sociopathic at all


Turtlehead88 t1_j5r1eq1 wrote

Don’t bother. America good. Russia bad. Any more thought than that will give them a headache.


Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j5r51p2 wrote

They want the Russian leadership to be disposed of or choose their people over their greed. If they will not choose their people and kin over greed and corruption then the Russian populace must topple them. Every Russian going about their day making money for the state and propping up the country directly leads to dead Ukrainians. If they don’t want to face the consequences of profiteering from belligerency then they should hold their leadership accountable.

You don’t get to repeatedly punch someone in the face then call yourself a victim when no one wants to help you up when you fall.


TurkeyLuver t1_j5pfn9y wrote

Did the people in charge of the sanctions forget?


NeurodiverseTurtle t1_j5pgecy wrote

Dude, however you try to deflect and ‘whatabout’ this, it doesn’t change the fact that the Swiss have decided to do business with a terrorist regime.

If it was a charitable donation for no profit, then it would be different. It would still be frowned upon, but it wouldn’t be as reprehensible.


TurkeyLuver t1_j5pgxcb wrote

They’re doing business with the patients. You crying about their government doesn’t change that fact. You crying about profits ignores that to get medicine involves an exchange of money.

Fake outrage.

Or just say that you want the Russian people to go without medicine if that is your opinion.


NeurodiverseTurtle t1_j5pitil wrote

No one is crying here, except you. No one is outraged here, except you.

People just aren’t happy that the Swiss are profiting from trade with Russia. Calm yourself.


TurkeyLuver t1_j5pn93i wrote

Everyone making medicine is profiting off the Russians.


NeurodiverseTurtle t1_j5pql30 wrote

No they aren’t, medicine manufacturers typically don’t choose who the end user is, they just manufacture and sell to distribution companies.

And most other countries aren’t selling the Russians medicine, as evidenced by Russia experiencing medicine shortages.

You’re not great at making convincing arguments. Anyway I’m done here, there’s nothing left to be said.


TurkeyLuver t1_j5pqymr wrote

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

> While prescription drugs are exempt from Western sanctions imposed over the war in Ukraine, their delivery to Russia has been hit by transport, insurance and customs hurdles caused by the war and other restrictive measures, industry figures say.

It’s not people choosing not to sell to them.


Turtlehead88 t1_j5r19nm wrote

Imagine all the insulin manufacturers stopped selling to Russia and a bunch of kids died. Do you think that is a net benefit?


Its_thea_time t1_j5sc5qu wrote

The US has exempt NPP fuel and enrichment services from the Energy sanctions list, and are buying/trading with Rosatom actively. But people draw the line at fucking medicine


sunniyam t1_j5s1zeg wrote

Medicine and food are not sanctioned so the headline is simply inflammatory. There has been a increase in the use of anti depressions and anti anxiety medicine by the public. That should tell you that the many people are aware of the situation and unhappy about it.


t_mokes t1_j5tj5g4 wrote

This is BS. Food and medicine should be sanctioned. Food used to feed soldiers? Meds to keep soldiers fighting? Fuck that! I always felt the same thing about OPEC. Food exporters should get together and fix prices of food exported to OPEC.

Food sanction would end this massacre really quick. No Russians will support the government that can’t feed its own people.


jxj24 t1_j5p3s9w wrote

It is hard to be against providing people with critically necessary medications.

That said, how much of this actually makes it to patients in need?

Also, how many of these are "lifestyle" drugs? I would like to see a breakdown by company and product.


derverdwerb t1_j5qlfrn wrote

What do you mean by “lifestyle” drugs, friend? We’re talking about Roche and Novartis. If look at their registered drugs, most of them are immune modulators, chemotherapeutics or other agents with no non-therapeutic indication.


fuqqkevindurant t1_j5qvtv9 wrote

What the fuck is a lifestyle drug? You switzerland has pharmaceutical companies that produce prescription MDMA or something you sociopath?


NapTimeFapTime t1_j5rvfrk wrote

I really hope there’s a Super Bowl commercial for prescription mdma.


foxx1337 t1_j5qpvie wrote

> That said, how much of this actually makes it to patients in need?

Are you implying the medication gobbled in its entirety by healthy oligarchs?


podgorniy t1_j5qqije wrote

Why you assume that it’s about providing “critical necessary medication”? Why not medications for soldiers and mercenaries?


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plumzki t1_j5q1ldu wrote

You can be against war crimes and shit the likes of what you just linked without calling for the genocide of an entire race, or you REALLY think every single russian is a baby racist, woman and children included? The fact that you use such an example to advocate for genocide means you must in fact believe in complete annihilation of the entire human race, right?? Because we ALL have fucking monsters.


Efficient-Craft9119 t1_j5q0ixj wrote

Damn that’s fucked up, we better kill some babies for revenge, right? That’s the plan?


GlobalMonke t1_j5qq4hp wrote

You’re the one calling for more baby death and suffering.


geophilo t1_j5qedpm wrote

Innocent women and children (and others) suffering under the iron fist of Putin should still have Access to basic medicines.


Darhhaall t1_j5y0nks wrote

Who do you think keeps Putin in power for all those years?


Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j5r5kl9 wrote

To be fair if you coddle and protect the populace enabling the invasion they will never change their way.

Personally I think donations should be allowed. Making a profit seems dirty


backpackrack t1_j5t21yk wrote

Comments out here literally saying we should withhold medication from people. Without medication there will be waves of death across the country of mainly children and the elderly.

You're asking these sanctions to murder innocent people.

Some of you are genuinely sick people and as morally bankrupt as Putin himself.


Darhhaall t1_j5y0jz7 wrote

There are already waves of death across the country.
Just not their own country.
So lets them have their own medicine - you don't want to play by rules of civilised countries, so you also don't get to reap their benefits.

Only way this will stop is regime change in Russia, and only way that happens is when population is so desperate and pissed that they fear for their future more than they fear their government. Se lets stop being naive, this deifnetly will get much worse before it gets better, and I would like it to get worse for the Russians rather than for the Ukrainians.


aging_geek t1_j5qopnj wrote

makes sense with all the false leg/arm and head injuries to get out of the draft.


TheMindfulnessShaman t1_j5t25zc wrote

Medicine should never be used as leverage.

Who do you think the free world is?



creativename87639 t1_j5r1p3b wrote

Everyone still sells medicine to Russia, I want their government to fall out a window, not their people.


Chiliconkarma t1_j5qdw0f wrote

Food and medication won't rouse my anger, but there could be a story about this medicine being used near the front to support the war effort.


Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j5r61oe wrote

What do you think props up the regime? Their populace having access to food and medicine. No one should stand in the way of that, but at the same time to do business with and export such things TO Russia will never do anything but convince Russians they can keep their lifestyle and kill their neighbors at the same time.

Let the Russian government handle the medical and nutritional needs of their populace. And if that fails then allow humanitarian aid under the implication that those receiving it are well aware of how and why they have to receive foreign aid packages.

Edit: btw I don’t mean wait and watch people starve until Russian leadership begs. I mean send the ultimatum. Russian leadership will realize they will be overthrown in a matter of days should that be the case. Then bring them to the negotiating table. Foreign aid/continuation of medical and food stuffs in return for xyz


Chiliconkarma t1_j5r9eml wrote

A. Who should make that threat? Who has the authority to actually starve / let them go without medication and say that on behalf of everybody?
B. What to do if they do not bow down to the ultimatum?
C. I don't find it overly likely that Russia will cooperate.
D. Russia have stated that their conditions for peace includes them keeping what they have stolen.
E. It would be highly unethical to follow through on the threat and damaging for morale if we don't.
F. Putin doesn't really care much about russian lives, he would sacrifice them in order to please himself.

We can't be monsters and we would be shit at pretending to be that. In the longer term it would risk that our local fools try the same logic on states like Hungary, Poland, perhaps UK. Accepting threats as a solution is easy for bullies.


False_Fondant8429 t1_j5qca9y wrote

Not to worry as this is only for the russians to stuck up cyanid


dog_eat_god t1_j5tpkpx wrote

You can always count on the Swiss to have no moral compass. They'd let the Russians transport troops through their country just like the Nazis did if there was a Franc to be made.


BezugssystemCH1903 OP t1_j5tpzi7 wrote

Medicine are not included in the EU-sanctions.

Thanks for condemning people for past things, I wish you a good day in your country with no faults in history.

Edit: ah I see your canadian, well...


PHASENDREHER t1_j5qqa8v wrote

Russia should get an ultimatium to stop the war. After that no drugs from any western Country to russia.


VerimTamunSalsus t1_j5rkpfo wrote

The Swiss sure are willing to profit during times of war


YosemiteVagrant t1_j5q3lkq wrote

Switzerland playing both sides and backstabbing the west again...some things never change.


BezugssystemCH1903 OP t1_j5q7fo1 wrote

Medical products are not on the sanctions list of the EU as prescribed in order not to harm the average citizen in Russia.

Other western pharmaceutical companies also still trade with Russia.


nojjon_ t1_j5xsiuk wrote

Doesn't matter how many times you give a logical answer lad, a lot of these people genuinely would kill Russias sick and elderly by denying medical sales.


BezugssystemCH1903 OP t1_j5xw7li wrote

Yes, it matters. It always does.

If not we're not better, as those who wage this war.

I wish you a good day, wherever you are.


nojjon_ t1_j5xwzy3 wrote

I respect the attitude, I also wish you a good day.