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Cheesesticks1977 t1_j61jp13 wrote

Reply to comment by deftoner42 in A Russian graveyard reveals Wagner's prisoner army by reuters

Imagine prison being so bad there that knowing you might not survive six months on the Frontline is a better option.

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herbsandlace t1_j61mxlc wrote

Some of the men that are coming back now were in the first years of their 9+ year imprisonment. This does tell you the types of crimes they were in for though since in Russia a simple murder (one person killed another person) is usually 7-9 years. There are also rumors that some of the survivors who have been released may not really have done any fighting since some of them are very rich due to their criminal past.

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RickytyMort t1_j61zxqw wrote

What, you think Russia is going to let those prisoners loose on the general population while they are shortstaffed at the front?

They'll be sent right back as meatshields. Russia puts innocents in gulags for bogus crimes and beats them to death. No way they are going to honor some promises they made to convicts.

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bak3donh1gh t1_j625w67 wrote

No hes saying that rich ones get their family to pay for them to get a bogus 6 months service and get released, the rest die, eventually. I don't know the stats but some of the people have to be either good people or people who protested either this war or Pootin and are now being fed to a meat grinder because a man with a small dick thought war was the best way to make a legacy. The time that was possible is basically over; there's no legacy if everyone's dead, and that kinda the only way to win a war currently with a nuclear power.

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chewiezzzz t1_j62qibv wrote

I've read a story recently about a businessman who was sentenced for a quadruple murder of a family of his business partner and an attempted murder of his niece, both times using contracted killers. He joined Wagner and went free and unharmed after 6 months of service, then flew to Turkey.

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synapticrelease t1_j6320mu wrote

They have to honor it because if word comes back to prisons that they aren’t honoring the deal, no one else is going to sign up

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DCrichieelias79 t1_j632xac wrote

Haha, you think they have a choice.

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synapticrelease t1_j63fjju wrote

They wouldn't go around making pleas for prisoners if they could just simply pluck them out.

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DCrichieelias79 t1_j63gclo wrote

They write stories for the public that they are making pleas for prisoners. Just the same as they write stories that they are only conscripting 300,000 or 500,000 able bodied men of a certain age.

The reality in Russia when they show up with papers to sign is the other hand is holding a hammer.

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synapticrelease t1_j63kbum wrote

hm. I'm not buying it.

If it's a big PR thing, then why even write that you're having to dig for prisoners rather than just saying they were patriotic volunteers.

Also, we have the words from captured Wagner forces themselves.

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DCrichieelias79 t1_j63m4mh wrote

Those very same wagner POWs are the ones saying the prisoners are basically meatshields sent out to soak bullets. There is zero intent to let them survive. Only the ones with families wealthy enough to pay bribes get to come back alive.

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synapticrelease t1_j63rooe wrote

Yes I agree with you. But that’s not the same as what we are talking about.

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hurleyburleyundone t1_j6327ib wrote

Dudes not wrong.

You think its implausible that a mercenary army wouldnt take money from a crime boss to look the other way? Its criminals dealing with criminals and free profit.

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Baneken t1_j633z49 wrote

And likely in typical Russian fashion a thick wad of cash handed to local Wagner Brigade-General who takes the pile and admits that "war doesn't need one man" and lets him get off easy by putting the guy into laundry-duty for 6 months or something instead of being in the reserve-list for the next suicide-wave at Bahmut.

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Ouatcheur t1_j67kfec wrote

Except for a few of the prisoners that got filthy rich through their crimes.

In a country led by oligarchs and kleptocrats, where even the military is super corrupted from top military general all the way down to mere squad leaders, money always talks. As long as one can pay a sufficient amount of big bribes, he can walk away scott free and makec a *lot* of "behind the scenes" deals. Or be relatively treated ok (or even with favors) while remaining in prison.

This does't include those that were super duper filthy rich: those just bribed their entire sentence right away in the first place, and never went to prison.

But the "merely" criminally rich might have preferred to hang on to their illicit cash secretly, while remaining patient and in prison until they get out and then live well, because bribing their wait out prematurely would mean that once out they wouldn't be rich anymore. But now that "choice" has turned into either keeping your secret riches but going to the front and probably die, vs freedom and relative safety albeit not rich anymore.

But that probably applies only to a few. Most prisoners just would not have the money to make those kind of "deals".

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daimemo t1_j61uwuv wrote

All things aside, its a different approach to punishment. In most western countries the imprisonment and the lack of freedom are the punishment itself. And other countries the lack of freedom is just part of the punishment.

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Ouatcheur t1_j67jgwx wrote

I fully expect those that don't want to sign for the conscription to be "gently encouraged" to do so by the reputedly ever so fair annd amiable Russian police, military, and prison staff.

"No torture involved no sirrreree, never! They all jumped at the chance to defend the homeland, and all signed volontarily!"

(Said eery Russsian media spokesperson)

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