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ntbananas t1_j6jrh08 wrote

We're about as far as we've been from a two state solution any time in at least the past 50 years.

Bibi accepting extremists into his coalition to avoid corruption charges, Abbas likely dying of old age soon without any successor, and Hamas increasingly having a presence in the West Bank. Good fucking luck, Blinken


needypondy t1_j6js7k6 wrote

At this point, the Biden administration (and pretty much most governments in the world) accept that neither side is willing to make the politically explosive concessions necessary for a peace deal. For example, the Palestinians would likely need to give up their right of return, and Israel would need to give up many settlements and more.

I guess they’re just waiting until either side has their own Anwar Sadat. Until then, they mostly just want to avoid war with many casualties.


ntbananas t1_j6jt0rm wrote

Yep. Unfortunately it seems like a demographic issue as well. Current Israeli adults have predominantly lost trust in Palestinian leadership due to the intifadas plus the growing share of Haredim as a % of population. Will require some buffer time until (hopefully) the voter base has replenished with people who have not experienced intifadas. Similarly, Palestinian youth are increasingly affiliating themselves with Islamist groups (Hamas, PIJ, etc.) rather than secular groups. While I have plenty of criticism for the PLO/PA, at the very least they are ideologically able to make compromises and less tied up in religious absolutism.


grapehelium t1_j6jvwze wrote

I am not sure the PA/PLO is able to make any compromises. None of their leaders can accept a deal that gives them any less than arafat rejected.

In addition the Palestinians have consistently refused numerous offers of a state. As far as I can tell, they Palestinians have never compromised on any of their demands.

I expect they will get a state eventually, but it will be so long until they agree, it will be a fragment of what they could have had.

And then there is the other issue, that they have been unwilling to agree to the Israeli requirement that any agreement be the end of all claims. i.e The Palestinians cannot come back 10 years after a signed agreement and say they also want A,B,C. This is a major problem for them, as many Palestinians see an agreement with Israel as just a first step in reclaiming all of Palestine. As they regularly say - From the river (i.e. Jordan River) to the sea (i.e. mediterranean sea) Palestine will be free. i.e. no more Israel.

(not to mention that Hamas and the PA can't agree on very much, and that Even if Israel were willing to meet all the demands of the PA, Abbas isn't really a legitimate leader, being in the 19th year of his 4 year presidential term....)


ntbananas t1_j6jwqnl wrote

I don't really disagree with what you wrote. To clarify, I was referring to the PLO from the time around the Oslo Accords. While far, far from perfect, that showed they were at least willing to make some sort of compromise. Better and more rational than Hamas et al.

That said, the modern PA has made some compromises with Israel. Not in terms of a lasting peace plan or anything major, but they do generally (outside of particularly large flare-ups like this month) cooperate with Israel on day-to-day matters like minor civil things, taxation, and even limited security cooperation


bhuddistchipmonk t1_j6od2u5 wrote

Doesn’t seem like they’ve been doing much security cooperation recently (hence the recent raids in Jenin)


ntbananas t1_j6ofhxx wrote

True. But that was the case as of a couple months ago


cdnchronics t1_j6kruv1 wrote

>Anwar Sadat.

he was assasinated, and likely the next person who tries it will share the same fate, which is why the process is somewhat locked.

Past Leader of Jordan King Hussein, who normalized ties with israel in 94, drew parallels between Rabin's assassination and his grandfather's assassination in 1951. (The CIA handed King Hussein a detailed report in December 1995 warning him of a Syrian plot to assassinate him and his brother Hassan)

assassination attempts are made by extremists to undermine peace efforts.


needypondy t1_j6kvev5 wrote

Oh yeah. Any leader who makes those concessions immediately makes them target number 1 of many extremists on their respective side.


whitewalker646 t1_j6l3eq0 wrote

From what i have heard sadat had plans for peace between the PLO and Israel and wanted to start these negotiations after Israel withdraws from sinai but he was assassinated before he could carry out his plans


I-am-not-ok26 t1_j6jufhg wrote

A two state solution won't work. Hamas has control over Gaza which is basicaly a city , and it's gone to hell. It would be insane to give them more land.


autotldr t1_j6jothb wrote

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 75%. (I'm a bot)

> US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has called for Israel and the Palestinians to take "Urgent steps" to restore calm amid escalating violence.

> Mr Blinken said the US had "An enduring goal of Palestinians and Israelis enjoying equal measures of freedom, security, opportunity, justice and dignity", which he said could best be achieved by "Realising the vision of two states" - an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel.

> "That's why we're urging all sides now to take urgent steps to restore calm, to de-escalate - we want to make sure there's an environment in which we can... at some point create the conditions where we can start to restore a sense of security for Israelis and Palestinians alike."

Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Palestinian^#1 Israeli^#2 State^#3 Blinken^#4 security^#5


Playful-Ad6556 t1_j6ku3k7 wrote

Two state solution? That ship has sailed and crashed on the rocks. Try something new for a change.


pp_in_a_pitcher t1_j6jidxr wrote

Two state solution never worked , they should just form a singular state and give Palestinians equal rights to Israelites


needypondy t1_j6jsc1d wrote

Neither side wants this because it’d immediately devolve into a dysfunctional sectarian state likely to descend into civil war.


ntbananas t1_j6jt7u6 wrote

Yep. Look no further than Lebanon to see what that dysfunction would look like. Not an inspiring track record


needypondy t1_j6jtu1j wrote

Yeah. Even in this post-civil war period, they’re so dysfunctional they have been going through one of the worst economic crises ever recorded (according to the World Bank). It just doesn’t work.


ntbananas t1_j6juqus wrote

The only counterpoints I can think of in terms of old world (i.e., excluding the Americas since those are predominantly multi-ethnic, immigrant-based societies) successful truly multiethnic states are Switzerland and Belgium. Maybe India as well, though they seem to be sliding into chaos as well these days. There are probably some in Africa as well, though I have to admit I'm not particularly well versed in demographic trends there.

Nonetheless, none of the successful versions are anything close to a theoretical one state solution


thedeathdrive t1_j6nnsr4 wrote

What’s the alternative, though? No resolution, just guaranteed periodic violence?


needypondy t1_j6noqv1 wrote

Probably, yes. Until either side makes concessions that would be politically explosive on their own side, resolution isn’t likely. A one-state solution also certainly will not happen.


grapehelium t1_j6jw5uf wrote

Last time a country tried that, i.e. Jordan, the Palestinians tried to stage a coup.


Ashmedai314 t1_j6jr2vf wrote

This is option is highly unpopular both in Palestine and in Israel.


onlyfacts2000 t1_j6kga3n wrote

Yeah we just let in millions of people who's chosen leaders have the destruction of Israel as part of their covenant. Delusional.


Test19s t1_j6jkcyq wrote

Put Likudistan under an embargo until they agree to withdraw from the West Bank and fully compensate the descendants of displaced Palestinians with either cash or the right to visit their ancestral homes.


Ashmedai314 t1_j6jr05a wrote

Sounds fair, but only if the Arab countries would compensate all the displaced Mizrachi Jews with cash too. No need for the right to visit the ancestral home, because Israel is their ancestral home.