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ntbananas t1_j6nafii wrote

I understand why they’re using them and think it might be justified. But it’s important to remember that the most frequent victims of land mines are civilians, long long after the actual war has ended.

I wish Ukraine luck but also I hope they’re keeping track of where they lay mines


trekie88 t1_j6nf6vn wrote

I bet that among the list of training that the Ukrainian military received documenting landmine placement was on the list.


ntbananas t1_j6nfjly wrote

I hope so, and I imagine that's true from a top-down perspective. But I suspect that the lower level troops, many of whom are not professionals, are probably a little more focused on rapid deployment rather than perfect documentation. Which is understandable, if not ideal


Musa_Ali t1_j6nluu6 wrote

How could it be "justified" if it's a banned weaponry (becsuse they indiscriminately hit combatants and non-combatants). Especially considering that Ukraine signed the agreement in 1997 and people suffering are their own citizens.

As per article - it already resulted in 11 civilian deaths, and 50 life-changing injuries.


ntbananas t1_j6nmnf2 wrote

The simplistic tradeoff would be civilian deaths caused by landmines vs. civilian deaths prevented by use of landmines against Russian troops. It is clear that Russian troops have no qualms about intentionally massacring civilians. If landmines stop a group of tanks from overrunning a Ukrainian village or whatever, is that worth it? Hard to say without looking at a ton of very specific scenarios.

If Ukraine is doing a good job documenting where landmines are being laid and keeping civilians away from those areas (which, based on what you said, maybe not) then that could be ok.


Musa_Ali t1_j6no163 wrote

BTW these landmines are anti-personnel, not anti-tank. They're "delivered" by artillery and then fly randomly covering a large area.
And kids wouldn't really know that this forest or that field is documented somewhere as dangerous.


ntbananas t1_j6noait wrote

I was envisioning something closer to the zone rouge in France, but point taken yeah


Emotional_Penalty t1_j6pcju7 wrote

Lol no it could not 'be ok'. These things are banned for a reason, just like a whole bunch of other weaponry. If you make exceptions like this you might as well say this for any other type of weaponry.


[deleted] t1_j6nqzae wrote



Musa_Ali t1_j6nwuh9 wrote

I get the "everything goes" mentality. But it's jarring to see that in reddit it equates with "they can do no wrong".
And how because of that (paraphrasing here) "war crimes are not that bad and if you think about it - even good"


DDNyght_ t1_j6oyfjt wrote

People will give Ukraine a pass on anything it seems, despite the hypocrisy.


autotldr t1_j6nayai wrote

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 80%. (I'm a bot)

> Human Rights Watch on Tuesday called on Ukraine to investigate its military's alleged use of landmines near the eastern Ukrainian city of Izyum.

> The human rights group found physical evidence of landmine use - including unexploded mines, the remnants of mines, the metal cassettes that carry the mines and the blast signatures of mines - at seven of the nine locations in Izyum.

> Human Rights Watch noted that Ukraine is a signatory of the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty, which banned the use of landmines.

Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukrainian^#1 Human^#2 Rights^#3 Mine^#4 Izyum^#5


krumpdawg t1_j6oufcz wrote

Seems kind of idiotic. If you need landmines, especially the anti-tank kind (which won't trigger on foot mobiles), to stop armored advances then so be it. As if HRW has some kind of authority to tell Ukraine how to defend their own territory.


ImTheJackYouKnow t1_j6nz3xw wrote

Hey you getting invaded by your neighbour, the one that promised to never attack you. And NATO persuaded you to give up your nukes for and in return protect you. Whose military are committing atrocities to your civilian populations. You shouldn’t use some of your weapons against them. Because you promised.
Yeah this is pretty weird to me. Maybe focus on what Russians are doing there. The Ukrainians really don’t want to be mining their own country.