Submitted by progress18 t3_10odkac in worldnews
Comments
[deleted] t1_j6e45m2 wrote
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mtaw t1_j6f3ycv wrote
Foreign aid almost ass a rule goes to countries that are very corrupt, and national aid organizations have long since worked out ways to minimize the opportunities for and risks of corruption, ensure accountability and so on.
This is just a belt-and-suspenders move to sway domestic opinion in donor countries for the ignorant masses who never spent a second thinking about how foreign aid works and are therefore easily swayed by people saying "it's a corrupt country, you can't give them money!", as if aid organizations just hand out money blindly, when the reality is they've got decades of experience dealing with those issues. Nobody wants to see their foreign aid money wasted.
AntiworkDPT-OCS t1_j6fky7q wrote
You are correct. I'm in the middle of a masters program on this. A TON of academic thought has gone into aid to corrupt countries. It's generally not famine, disease, or war that kills a country, it's corruption. And those with the money know this.
lil_sh_t t1_j6fmqi6 wrote
Maybe Ukraine will be somewhat unique.
It only makes sense for them to swiftly and quickly join Western 'parties' ASAP. I used parties instead of alliances, unions or anything, because those terms are heavily associated with NATO and the EU. Even if these are the final goals, Ukraine would currently be happy to be invited to whatever increases ties to the West. Be it Baltic Union, Scandinavia or the European Ping-Pong association.
Jokes aside, maximum accountability, transparency, competence and zeal are required and Ukraine seems on the path to all of them. Alas they drag their feet and another unfortunate happening occurs.
flight_recorder t1_j6fpeuk wrote
How does the scale at which this aid could be implemented change things? Like, I imagine Ukraine will need a LOT of aid to rebuild, and relatively fast. Are these aid organizations equipped to account for that much money that quickly?
AntiworkDPT-OCS t1_j6gjmj0 wrote
It's through a U.S. military college so I am mostly familiar with U.S. capacities. So yes, the U.S. can do it, but I'm not much up on NGOs and other governments.
Nakagawa-7 t1_j6g3af2 wrote
Normally I’d be on your side. But I have to point out, for Americans at least, after 20 years of Afghanistan, being suspicious of corruption risks in giving aid is a very very well founded concern.
Because if all these orgs had mechanisms to prevent corruption lmfao, buddy, nobody told that to the afghans, not to mention the US politicians and businessmen who figured out how to discretely take advantage for their own benefits.
But I’m just saying that experience is hard to forget. Ukraine isn’t Afghanistan, luckily no other country is quite like that place. Ukraine is fully worth trying to help until the unlikely chance they prove otherwise.
qainin t1_j6fdkjj wrote
The main bulk of the money for reconstruction will come from Russia.
The bill will end out in Moscow.
lil_sh_t t1_j6fn0zx wrote
Like billing a bum
Can't force money out of an empty plate. Especially if that plate will only retain meagre rations in the future too.
Demographics and technology are screwed for years. The former even for decades.
circ_le_jerk_69 t1_j6fzto3 wrote
The West has frozen something like $300 billion of Russian central bank assets. That might not be enough to cover reconstruction, but it's a good start. All that's needed is a mechanism to transfer that money to Ukraine (e.g. Ukraine sues Russia in some international court).
Nakagawa-7 t1_j6g58om wrote
Pretty sure they already know that won’t be enough, like with what’s being expended on the war already. Ukraine has virtually no economy until the war ends, and that’d be devastatingly expensive for an entire country even not fighting a war.
But I also want to point out, lumping all the cost on Russia might be another treaty of Versailles style mistake. Any Russian not yet born or old enough to be involved right now, doesn’t bear responsibility and shouldn’t be made to. They don’t need actual legit grievances to want revenge against the west for.
circ_le_jerk_69 t1_j6gimnj wrote
We don't have the ability to lump all the costs on Russia because they have nukes, unlike Germany in 1919. We do have the ability to have them contribute $300 billion though. Like you said, that won't be enough. Ukraine and their backers will have to cover the rest.
eschybach t1_j6fk9lx wrote
Do it, please. If my tax dollars are being used for aid and recovery, I want my tax dollars to be used for aid and recovery.
[deleted] t1_j6gqg8f wrote
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Baneken t1_j6h6wzx wrote
Should have been in place since the day one when the first foreign aid started coming in, but it's still good that they're implementing a system to track it.
Torifyme12 t1_j6hedaj wrote
My man they were busy fighting of an invasion while dodging assassins going for Zelensky
Also you know, trying to make sure that the Russians stopped using nuclear plants as staging areas, and digging victims from the endless maternity hospital bombings.
Overall, could it have been done sooner? Yeah, but it would've taken attention away from who knows what else. I'm glad they're doing it and making an effort.
[deleted] t1_j6hmyn9 wrote
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tedstery t1_j6hh6hq wrote
They've had a lot on their plate to be fair. It's good that it's now being proposed.
[deleted] t1_j6dywdd wrote
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Jake_Cathelinaeu t1_j6e3vfn wrote
Good for them! Another war they are separating from the way Russia does business.
falconzord t1_j6gogmy wrote
Russia is transparent, you can see all the yachts at the docks
Baneken t1_j6h6yj0 wrote
And gigantic mansions...
SLS-Dagger t1_j6hqyx5 wrote
at the docks?!
Baneken t1_j6hrs4k wrote
Russian Oligarchs like to buy properties in places such as Cyprus, Monaco and London, I'd be surprised if none of them include their own private docking for the yacht.
Minoltah t1_j6ht5mn wrote
They've been reduced to piers now! Since the Russian Navy retreated, there has only been a different kind of docking among the sailors...
rldogamusprime t1_j6ee43v wrote
This is good news. Their current and ongoing attempts at tackling corruption and their own initiative in suggesting this step are both immensely positive signs. Goes a long way in tackling the local Rusbots' tired arguments about money laundering and Ukrainian corruption. Less ammunition for the fifth column is always a good thing.
Waste_Plankton2666 t1_j6gs2tj wrote
But Ukraine has huge problem with corruption. As Pole that went there many time to buy things like sweets,vodka etc and resell in Poland.
And its not only corruption in politics, its also police, guards etc. Its like my own country 30 years ago. When you want to do something you need money for regular price + bribe money so it's done.
Sighma t1_j6hbt0c wrote
It is interesting to read from a Ukrainian perspective. I am 32 y.o and never in my life gave a bribe. I do this out of principle and my life was just fine so far.
Waste_Plankton2666 t1_j6m18sp wrote
I m 31, 11 years ago I gave plenty of bribes to police and guards, just because I had PL on my car or I would have to wait unreasonable time to do anything.
Both police and guards suggested that if I give them money everything will be fine.
Baneken t1_j6h78q3 wrote
> But Ukraine has huge problem with corruption
Yes, yes they do have a lot of problems with it but this gets the ball rolling and hopefully the initiative will carry onward after Zelensky presidency and war times as well.
nick1812216 t1_j6iw41l wrote
It is better in Poland now though? How did Poland fix their corruption problem? (Is it because of the collapse of the Soviet Union?)
Waste_Plankton2666 t1_j6m0z2c wrote
It's because of collapse of Soviet Union and simply older ppl died.
I got a lot of down votes because truth is harash, ppl that comment here never travelled to Ukraine.
Volky_Bolky t1_j6hnbpz wrote
Mate you are on reddit where like 80% of users are from the U.S. and americans generally don't know where areUkraine and Russia geographically located and can't show them on the map.
Stop trying to say things that are true and don't feel the narrative.
[deleted] t1_j6icv5i wrote
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geophilo t1_j6ekyj4 wrote
This is a great way to inspire trust in helping nations. Will probably result in more aid.
Cyphierre t1_j6g4i30 wrote
It will increase aid by
- Diverting aid away from corrupt officials and industry cronies, and to those who actually need it.
- Encouraging more nations to participate in any aid programs.
- Reducing the effectiveness of political slander campaigns designed to derail the aid process.
autotldr t1_j6e456s wrote
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 64%. (I'm a bot)
> Ukraine has proposed creating a mechanism for auditing the aid provided by the United States for recovery projects, together with the U.S. Government Accountability Office.
> Kubrakov said the mechanisms and procedures for transparency and accountability in the use of funds and assistance that Ukraine receives for recovery and post-war reconstruction had been discussed at a meeting with inspectors from the U.S. Department of Defense, the State Department, and the U.S. Agency for International Development, who arrived in Kyiv to audit the U.S. aid.
> "We proposed creating a respective mechanism for auditing the United States aid for recovery projects together with the U.S. Government Accountability Office. I hope this will become an additional effective tool to ensure transparency in the use of aid from partners," the minister said.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 U.S.^#2 State^#3 mechanism^#4 Kubrakov^#5
ErectionDenier2024 t1_j6f3utp wrote
As a US citizen, I'm absolutely OK with this. The money should be watched to make sure it goes to where it's needed most.
Indigocell t1_j6fo8lp wrote
It would be the responsible thing to do.
Iron-Fett t1_j6fqf5d wrote
Then it would be going to help Americans not some other country.
Dismal-Past7785 t1_j6g1okm wrote
Helping the geopolitical goals of the USA is helping the American people, and we’re rich enough to do both anyways. The crowd screaming about Ukraine aid should be going to the USA has massive overlap with the anti-socialism, anti-government crowd that should be pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps anyways (while often being dependent on government handouts).
There’s a reason Kynect in Kentucky is super popular while Obamacare is super unpopular despite them being the exact same thing.
GrantedPermission t1_j6g9cme wrote
America is fully capable of helping themselves and many other countries. They choose to let Americans suffer because they’re not pulling themselves up by the bootstraps. I’m noticing a trend of republicans saying this, yet at the same time advocating against anything actually helpful to Americans I.e. healthcare, higher income assistance, higher education standards, more public resources
circ_le_jerk_69 t1_j6g0e02 wrote
Right, because the US doesn't have enough resources for us to both take care of ourselves, and also stop a genocide at the same time?
ErectionDenier2024 t1_j6fql74 wrote
While we do need to do more for the people here...it's also OK that we assist the people in Ukraine.
Germanloser2u t1_j6dxm0c wrote
ok ✅️
PugsAndHugs95 t1_j6f4i0w wrote
With U.S. Republicans in control of the U.S. house of representatives it's important to be transparent and track aid to avoid low hanging fruit kind of criticisms to not sent Ukraine aid.
notsure9191 t1_j6fierv wrote
You would hope it would be important to do this regardless of who controlled the house.
k20350 t1_j6fc9eg wrote
I'm not a Debbie downer or anti anything but a fucking ton of this money will be stolen. Never in the history of fucking ever had the US dumped cash on a country and it didn't result in rampant theft and corruption. On top of that it's Eastern Europe pretty much the capital of corruption at every level. In no way anti Ukrainian it's just the cold hard fact. There's billions upon billions of dollars just "missing" from Afghanistan and Iraq alone.
nomofica t1_j6ff8fv wrote
That risk is literally why they are making this audit mechanism proposal. Ukraine has been making strides in rooting out corruption, and it was the reason Zelenskyy was voted in in the first place. Much of Eastern Europe is as corrupt as it is precisely because of long-standing Russian interference.
LetterheadEconomy809 t1_j6g4tvi wrote
Zelensky was in the Panama papers. He is corrupt as they come.
The mechanism is going to be just how many politicians kids they have to hire and pay for the US govt to look the other way.
King_of_the_Nerdth t1_j6gscxk wrote
Source?
[deleted] t1_j6hav58 wrote
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Illustrious-Gas2213 t1_j6haeom wrote
This poster never misses an opportunity to bash Ukraine and President Zelensky. Not a peep about Russia and Putin. His posts history confirms his Kremlin bias.
LetterheadEconomy809 t1_j6hjk6a wrote
Russia and Putin don’t need to be ‘bashed’. Neither is being praised in the media propaganda and we are all very aware of the corruption.
k20350 t1_j6fg1qm wrote
"We have investigated ourselves and found no wrong doing" C'mon
degotoga t1_j6fgkik wrote
First sentence of the article:
> Ukraine has proposed creating a mechanism for auditing the aid provided by the United States for recovery projects, together with the U.S. Government Accountability Office.
Come on man. Do better
[deleted] t1_j6fh4az wrote
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MGD109 t1_j6fh3s1 wrote
Well in Ukraine's case from the sounds of it was more "we have investigated ourselves and found the following officials are bent, they were subsequently fired and will be facing criminal charges."
circ_le_jerk_69 t1_j6g0rjs wrote
> Never in the history of fucking ever had the US dumped cash on a country and it didn't result in rampant theft and corruption.
The same thing happens when you dump a ton of money in the US. NYTimes reported that an estimated 15% of the $800 billion of PPP money was fraud. This is the reason why an audit mechanism is important.
Certainly-Not-A-Bot t1_j6fiz3k wrote
They're trying very hard to root out corruption because they know that if it comes out that American money was stolen and they didn't crack down on it, they lose all their support. The Ukrainian government needs American support, so they'll implement any sort of anti-corruption measures they need to prevent corruption.
Baneken t1_j6h7nvz wrote
Not to mention that rooting out corruption is important for their war effort, Ukraine lost Crimea because of wide-spread corruption in the military and nobody in Ukraine wants a repeat of that.
[deleted] t1_j6h1fj2 wrote
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Baneken t1_j6h7tl0 wrote
> pretending to know what I'm talking about
By admitting this, you're immediately 100% more reliable than 99% of Reddit users /s
ArchitectNebulous t1_j6gtmjt wrote
Good. Transparency is almost allways a good thing.
autotldr t1_j6e45sb wrote
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 64%. (I'm a bot)
> Ukraine has proposed creating a mechanism for auditing the aid provided by the United States for recovery projects, together with the U.S. Government Accountability Office.
> Kubrakov said the mechanisms and procedures for transparency and accountability in the use of funds and assistance that Ukraine receives for recovery and post-war reconstruction had been discussed at a meeting with inspectors from the U.S. Department of Defense, the State Department, and the U.S. Agency for International Development, who arrived in Kyiv to audit the U.S. aid.
> "We proposed creating a respective mechanism for auditing the United States aid for recovery projects together with the U.S. Government Accountability Office. I hope this will become an additional effective tool to ensure transparency in the use of aid from partners," the minister said.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 U.S.^#2 State^#3 mechanism^#4 Kubrakov^#5
Bright-Survey-3758 t1_j6gputf wrote
dont they already require this wtf
[deleted] t1_j6egv7u wrote
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IT_Chef t1_j6hpgmm wrote
I hope that Ukraine pushes the anti-corruption stuff hard.
Message that corruption is purely a "Russian thing" and that Ukraine wants nothing to do with that.
dbula t1_j6iba97 wrote
Why didn't the US propose this? Why doesn't the US propose this every time it just starts handing out money...
nick1812216 t1_j6ivwmr wrote
Omg, this country is awesome
Emotional-Coffee13 t1_j6jynb7 wrote
Blockchain to track every dollar in & out - some of the largest US companies like Walmart have shifted to the 21st century accounting to keep inventory tracked as it passes thru multiple supply chains globally
The pentagon should b forced to update its systems from the 1970/80’s software that leads to them never passing an audit losing trillions not knowing what we own & making 35T dollars in accounting adjustments in 2020 alone - same w our Govt who spends 10’s of billions repairing old floppy disc drives rather than FIXING it but that would mean accountability
CandidateDifficult56 t1_j6ld5f1 wrote
The fact that there hasn’t been more requirements for transparency is disgusting. People are buying houses and boats with our aid. Guns and missiles and other weaponry are ending up on the black market. We don’t even require them to keep track of all of this free shit we’re paying for with our money.
TheDankDragon t1_j6olgq7 wrote
Brilliant idea
anengineerandacat t1_j6ff8ec wrote
Let me buy Ukrainian bonds? Pay me back with good strong interest once your back to normal? Would rather drop the money directly into the coffers versus going around to different people.
[deleted] t1_j6fjiin wrote
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Frayed28IT t1_j6enz21 wrote
I know it sounds pessimistic but, who’s going to fund this new mechanism? Will this in itself come from aided funds? Working with the US Accountability Office, in all reality IMO, doesn’t provide the peace of mind they think sounds like it should, either.
Edit: Legitimately wonder. How can any of it be trusted anymore?
Gornarok t1_j6ez996 wrote
> Legitimately wonder. How can any of it be trusted anymore?
Everything is a lie and everyone lies is literally major part of ruzzian propaganda and brainwashing.
Im saying this, not to accuse you of spreading ruzzian propaganda, but to put it into perspective.
If you succumb to such thinking you are doomed. You have to critically pick whats trustable and try to verify it. Check the institutions record. Think about motives. Think who profits.
Frayed28IT t1_j6iz6vg wrote
Exactly. Same could be said for everyone. Who do you trust? What are the -15 sources? Why?
Not trying to argue but, what are the sources that support this?
progress18 OP t1_j6dxh7w wrote
The purpose of the mechanism is to provide transparency and ensure accountability in terms of donor assistance from other countries.