8valvegrowl

8valvegrowl t1_j7l45oi wrote

As in a cooking stove? If so, is it also a gas oven? Or like a gas insert for heat?

I have a 4 burner gas cooktop/electric wall oven combo that has a pilot system (no electronic ignition in the 50's).

I have a 200lb tank, it holds just under 50 gallons; I calculate my average consumption over the past 3 years to be ~33 gal/year or about ~2.8 gal/month. I get twice a year delivery to top it up.

I love my vintage cooktop, it's a Chambers and built far better than anything today, totally rebuildable, and is a joy to cook on; but I'm curious about it's overall efficiency compared to a modern gas range.

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8valvegrowl t1_j7grdzz wrote

Reply to Well Location by fkirwan82

If all else fails with the above suggestions (ANR, DigSafe, etc), I think the UVM Archaeology Dept has a GPR (Ground Penetrating Radar) setup, that would definitely find it. Maybe they'd do it cheap as training for student researchers. Most bigger Civil Engineering firms probably have GPR, too. I'm sure that's not a cheap option, though.

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8valvegrowl t1_j73t26u wrote

Yes, it’s an older H2i model and is at my folks camp, which is poorly insulated and was somewhat undersized. I think that generation H2i had a hard shut-off at -13F or -15F. My current house is super well insulated and the Fujitsu compressor is appropriately sized for the four inside heads, and the heat/cool load of the house. I have no doubt it would keep my place comfy in this weather, just at a high electric usage rate. I burn wood as it’s cheaper and my wood stove is modern.

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8valvegrowl t1_j72c0p4 wrote

I don't really use my heat pumps in the winter for anything but air circulation in my new house. Just my woodstove from Nov to April.

But in the past I've had no issue running my Mitsubishi or others (Fujitsu and LG) down to -10F or -15F, they just heat cycle a lot and use a lot of power, without creating a ton of heat...but no issues beyond that.

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8valvegrowl t1_j6yv23n wrote

Probably going to have an extra cup of coffee and maybe an extra log in the wood stove. Normally I’d be at Smuggs for some laps, but with the wind and temps, nah. Plenty of season left.

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8valvegrowl t1_j6nzfc1 wrote

For sure...I seem to recall my house fell in the 0.5-0.75 ACH50 range, which is pretty tight. Interesting to know that foam prices have risen so much. We paid as much for the SIPS as we did for the timber frame (About $30K for frame and $30K for SIPS in 2019 prices)

Is the double stud scheme staggered? It's pretty fascinating how much the state of the art changes in building tech...seems like so much is pretty much built using legacy techniques still.

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8valvegrowl t1_j6nnwvb wrote

Exactly this.

I looked into Passivhaus design when I started planning for my new place, and given our climate and the overall costs, I decided net-zero should be my goal. I took about 4-5 years of research and planning before I even broke ground in 2019.

I built a 1500 sq ft timber frame house, R24 SIPS for the exterior walls, R38 SIPS for the roof. Roof aligned with the south and my main windows on the south wall. 4 zone minisplit system and a small woodstove. SIPS have virtually zero thermal bridging except on wall penetrations, the insulation doesn't degrade, or pack down, and can be made into large panels, they just really seem like best envelope you can make, whether stick-built, or timber frame.

It isn't fully net-zero yet...I need to install a ERV system, then size my solar appropriately (waiting to install the ERV and possibly a Level 2 car charging setup before I size my panels), but it's all designed with it in mind.

I use 1.5 to 2 cords of wood per winter (most of which I can harvest on my land), and the house is a nice 70 all summer and a nice 75 all winter. My electric bill is stable at $150/mo year round with no solar at the moment. The only fossil fuel on-site source is my gas cooktop, which seems to use about 20 gallons per year.

I'm very pleased so far.

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8valvegrowl t1_j5ts0z5 wrote

The Northeast Kingdom...basically the upper northeast part of the state. I consider roughly everything north and east of Montpelier to be the NEK; Newport and St. Johnsbury are the two big towns of that region. Beautiful area, and lots of good people there, but also a lot of fairly poor, rural folk that are pretty insular. Very much like parts of Appalachia.

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8valvegrowl t1_j3rgnkp wrote

Woodstove (Hearthstone Green Mountain 40)/Multizone mini split (Fujitsu Halcyon, 4-zones, 1 36K compressor).

I use ~ 2 cords of wood per year.

1500 sq ft

Approximately $150/mo between the two sources, keeping the house around 70-75. This will go down as my wood harvest finally starts to catch up...I've had to buy wood these past two years since it's a new build.

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8valvegrowl t1_j38vpin wrote

Thanks! You posted a ton of good points as well.

I think this is a topic a lot of us think about, and it's really hard to get good information without a lot of marketing fluff from all the industry players. Luckily there are lots of smart folks here in VT that are willing to share thoughts and ideas.

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8valvegrowl t1_j38ksmv wrote

This is such a complicated topic, since there are so many variables.

u/whaletacochamp has hit on a lot of great topics to think about.

I'm no expert by any means, but I take a key interest in energy (I'm a physicist, so it is a thing I think about a lot, I guess).

You managed 4 days without power, so I'm pretty sure you now have a good idea of what your needs are for the household, so make a list of priorities and for how long it would need to be an option.

Data is your friend here. First, track your normal energy usage globally; look at the use in the house over a year, but best to log it over a few years to account for variations. Pretty easy to do with your electric billing. Next, look at energy requirements for the things that are important to make the house function, for example, Refrigerator, well and sump pump, heat sources, basic lights. Some can be measured directly with a Kill-A-Watt meter in an outlet, others might take some math (like calculating several 15W LED's on a light circuit).

I'll reiterate u/whaletacochamp here, you NEED a transfer switch to prevent power flow when you switch between an islanding power system versus the power grid.

Moving on...

Weigh the Pros/Cons of every system (I'll list a few):

Battery Backup*:

Pros-

Cost: Can range from pretty cheap cost upfront (but there may be hidden costs for a turn-key system from a place like GMP), to very costly upfront (and later, if not well-designed).

Maintenance: Low/No Maintenance.

Readiness: Always ready/generally seamless back up (Charged up via grid before failure**, or with solar/wind to add to the system post-failure).

Lifetime: This is a wildcard, as the systems are pretty new, but claim to have a 15-20 year lifetime.

*This highly depends on how you set your battery up and any agreements you have with the electric grid provider. Lots of research is required to have a fully independent battery system, but the grid provider cannot touch your 'saved' energy.

**There is always the possibility, although small, that the grid is using your battery prior to grid failure, so it's not guaranteed it will be fully operational at any given time.

Neutral -

Power: Scalability costs money, and there are less installers with experience.

Cons-

Depending on the battery distribution scheme, your household power consumption may mean it lasts less than 24-48 hours. If you only power key sub-systems, or are willing to shutdown breakers, this might go further; especially if you can recharge the battery via solar or wind).

It's a black-box system, unless you build it yourself, or like to hack (ymmv, caveat emptor).

Standalone Gas Generator:

I'd only recommend small gas generators in an emergency, but a small contractor-type generator that can do 3000W-5000W is a nice thing to have. Have several heavy-duty power cords to plug in and a place to set it outside the house while it runs, you can run a few things in the house directly. I have a small Honda 4000W that can easily run at nominal load for 24 hours on a tank of gas.

Use ethanol free gas, start it twice a year to make sure it runs well. Change the oil once a year. Keep a clean run of ethanol free gas in a 2 gallon can and it's all good for an emergency situation for a few days. This is a great option for less than $1000.

Full House LPG/Diesel/NG:

These are expensive to install, but can easily be sized to run your whole house as long as there is fuel. A smaller scale system isn't that much cheaper to build.

If you have the infrastructure to supply them with fuel types, it's not a bad thing to think about, especially LPG or NG.

Pros-

Power: Easy to scale to full house requirements, smaller range between minimum and maximum power costs. Lots of installers out there with experience in setting these up.

Proven reliability/lifetime with maintenance: Over a century old technology, just more bells and whistles.

Cons-

Cost: Really steep if there is no fuel on-site, plus maintenance costs. Reliant on fuel costs/supply.

Maintenance: Minimum of annual professional maintenance to check engine/generator. Can be cheaper if you know a thing or two about engines or generators. Same goes for repair costs.

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