AGuyOnYT

AGuyOnYT t1_j5c24lm wrote

God as far as I and many religions are concerned exists outside of time.

The idea of things coming about involves time. For there to be nothing and then something implies time as well. So for there to be no change, there are two possibilities:

  1. There was/is/will be nothing
  2. There was is/will be something

We can cross out number 1 as we know there is indeed something right now. So no change means there always was something.

But let's suppose there was nothing but that changed and something came about as you say. Now, because time is involved as a change occurred, I can pose the question, "where did that something come from?" A true nothingness, and I mean absolutely nothing, cannot spawn something or else it would be the "thing that caused something" and would be something itself.

With regards to free will, the "rewind" thing was a very small part of my argument. If random phenomena dictate our reality, then I think there's an even better case against free will - more outside of our control. If it would rewind the same (not random), my argument stands exactly the same.

Speaking of time, I've been spending a lot of time in this sub and have enjoyed these discussions, but I gotta take a break for the day at least haha

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AGuyOnYT t1_j5bho0y wrote

You bring up a good point. I could claim to be atheist, agnostic, or theist depending on what I consider God to be.

There doesn't seem to be a universal definition for God that I could find (some internet searching), which is indeed a problem when it comes to communicating our beliefs on the existence or nature of God with everyone.

Word play aside, I think we can all agree that there is a something that's always existed. Ourselves, what we see around us, etc. couldn't have come from nothing or it wouldn't really be nothing.

Curious what definition you base your atheism on (I presume you are)?

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AGuyOnYT t1_j57ep6t wrote

Essentially, the process by which we choose has to have been created and determined in nature by God if God is the creator of everything. This is not necessarily a conscious decision on God's part, but nonetheless his doing.

I believe the point to existing is independent of free will existing. In a general sense, as we are living creatures, it is to reproduce and maximize our lifetime endorphin secretion. However, this will vary from person to person depending on how goals are prioritized. Factors that contribute to one's goal in life are determined by God as is everything.

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AGuyOnYT t1_j56lezn wrote

Appreciate the response. I don't claim to know anything about God other than that he (default pronoun for simplicity) is the creator of all. God did not come to be. That would make him a part of his own creation. Something cannot come from nothing, so God was always there. I don't know our purpose either or whether there even is one. I also don't believe free will can logically exist.

Regarding the afterlife, I would point you in the direction of Near Death Experiences (NDEs). These are the closest things we have to scientific proof of an afterlife. I was originally a skeptic, but after watching UVa's presentation (linked here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KhtRnbl8ZE), I believe NDEs are real and a currently unexplainable phenomenon - not just anecdotal accounts of wishful thinking. It's likely there is some extracorporeal mode of perception that still feeds to our brain. This can seemingly be triggered by certain NDEs.

Outside of NDEs, I don't have a clue how an afterlife would manifest for us if at all.

I think science will continue to help us make breakthrough discoveries that offer sound explanations for what we observe. What we learn of existence will also help us on the way to determining God's nature. Just remember that the explanations provided through science are not empirical and can be disproven or revised in the future (I.e., Newton). Although, they are effective and practical - real for all intensive purposes. It is our collective observations that are empirical, after all, each individual's reality is shaped by their own knowledge and observation.

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AGuyOnYT t1_j56fukh wrote

I think the issue here is our interpretations of "God". I don't claim to know the nature of God beyond him (default pronoun for simplicity) being responsible for existence rather than nonexistence. I'm not saying God is what Christians believe him to be or what Muslims claim etc. The supposed properties you mention are undecided for me. It's not like I imagine God to be a gray-haired man in the sky with infinite wisdom. I believe all theists agree on that foundation - God is just what we call the ultimate creator. He didn't create in the sense that a conscious effort involving rationality and purpose (very human-like) was made. The universe we inhabit we truly know very little about, I wouldn’t claim the source of its entirety to be just like us necessarily.
But you must agree that there is indeed something rather than nothing. At some point after questioning the causes for everything sequentially (parents meet, grandparents meet, big bang, etc.) , you must reach something that has always been there. “Something” could never come from “Nothing” or it wouldn't be “Nothing”.
That something is what I call God. Unless you don't agree with my definition for God, I truly don't see how anyone can deny God.

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AGuyOnYT t1_j541czs wrote

If you believe in Free Will or are an Atheist, read on:

​

Why is there something and not nothing? How is there something and not nothing?

Let’s call the answer to both questions God (necessarily outside of time). The “something” includes the observable universe and anything that may be unobservable in another realm (can never be proven).

Well I ask this: “Where do our decisions come from?”

Well, where does everything come from? God, right? We may undergo a process within our minds to reach a decision, but ultimately, it was entirely orchestrated by God. This must be the case, as God, whether intentionally or not, determined the nature of the “something” that is all of existence. You may still think you can choose from “your perspective”, but it is an illusion resulting from your lack of knowledge of yourself. We are products of God and had no influence over our genome, place of birth, and other environmental factors beginning at birth contributing to one’s nature as a person and decision making. Moreover, once you do something, that’s what you would’ve done all along in this universe/state of being. We will always see in hindsight that we never had free will. If we “hit the rewind button” on all of existence and let things play out again, things would all end in exactly the same way.

As I said, I believe the answer to my question is God, but if you disagree, please explain your thoughts and let me know of any errors I may have made.

This is also a question for atheists too. As you see God defined above as the “First Mover” and creator of the universe, why do you not believe in God’s existence? Why is God not logically valid as a term for the producer of existence? My definition appears to be the standard from what I’ve been able to see that’s universally accepted and not of any particular religion.

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