Yeah, as far as fixing the world goes, walking the walk is incredibly important. That’s something I struggle with in my own life. I do all this reading and learning but what can I do to help?

That said, debate isn’t just about fixing the world, it’s largely be about learning and finding the truth. I’ve learned just from this discussion on Reddit. People have to construct arguments when they write the articles and books we read. Debate is quite fundamental to the dissemination of knowledge, which is what we base our decisions on.

Many of us are completely uninvolved with politics, so I see what you’re saying as basically apathy leads to poor debate etiquette. Since people don’t feel like they have an impact on the world they aren’t motivated to care about the debate. But people in power can also be stubborn. It doesn’t necessarily come down to investment in the topic, but I think subconscious interpersonal dynamics and emotions play a large role in one’s debate style and willingness to learn and listen.

Yeah I guess there’s got to be more to bad faith than just whether or not they agree it’s more about like the attitude and approach to the debate.

Are you saying that I’m saying that if they don’t agree with me then they’re arguing in bad faith? Are you making a straw man of me? Are you arguing in bad faith!! This is why debate will never be enough. People get too bogged down in BS

People who think debate is the only thing keeping us from Eutopia don’t understand that most of our social ills arise from scarcity, rather than character flaws.

Being kind isn’t everyone’s primary motivation.

If someone is debating in good faith, they’re willing to learn from the other side. In any debate, both sides will make good points and both sides can learn. If everyone is willing to listen, while putting their best arguments forward, everyone would make progress. While this all sounds good in theory, people typically don’t participate in formal methods of debate, people naturally fall into bubbles, people often don’t debate in good faith, and much of the content we consume is given spin to fit a given narrative. We have a lot of work to do to improve society. It takes more than debating to get there, but debate is essential to gaining knowledge, which is essential to making progress.