GoodbyeCOI t1_jbr29kc wrote

No that's a real thing.

The only time I've heard the kid gloves comment is when people acknowledge their privilege be it white or male or rich or whatever identifier. have a disability and UBI will help you live a more comfortable life. I'm cool with that too. I just don't think people with disabilities are necessarily treated with kid gloves which is very different from legit and legal protected ADA accommodations. It's not kid gloves it's just decency and what society should do for those with legitimate disabilities.

Kid gloves is if you can take it or should learn how to take it if you haven't...some people are just straight up wheelchair bound and paralyzed so any form of kid glove treatment is usually reasonable and well intentioned even if it's something as small as asking for help at the grocery store.

I knew a guy who lost his arm in Iraq...dude whooped ass at pool volleyball. Found out he also is a purple belt jujitsu but I def saw the kid glove treatment you may be speaking of.


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbqylud wrote

That's where I learned SIGN...shame, insults, guilt, need to be right. Not insinuating and not my business but it's common with people raised by single moms or moms with psych disorders.

Feels bad saying that as if it's misogyny and dads can't be bad parents either but when men debate it's usually facts, logic, high IQ methods and formal debate tactics. Then when we get disciplined and corrected it's usually a formal process and explanation on how we fucked up instead of going straight to insults and ass whoopings like both moms and dads can do.

My therapist was real with me and said I picked up alot of bad habits from some of the women I was around when growing up who admittedly would always go straight to insults and SIGN. I picked it up and did the same until therapy called it out.

What helped me really communicate ironically was a shit job in a call center after therapy ended and I had to put it into practice along with telling people no and letting things go since people can be dicks over the phone as they are online.

I got passionate on the internet during covid but gotta catch myself from getting mad or being a dick.

I still make mistakes but if you're trying to get both UBI and socialized healthcare consider Europe assuming you're American.

I may still move there if I can find a way to get a certain type of visa...explains the problems they are running into trying to fund UBI so it's definitely something I think about and follow no matter the motivation which is ironically cannabis since I had a license and cannabis business for a while.

Malta was the first EU country to go federally legal. They just need human capital and $$$ if you read that article I wouldn't be surprised if cannabis is the sector they need to fund UBI along with changing regulations for financial firms who are exempt from paying their fair share.

So yeah...if I gotta work so others can smoke and fuck all day on UBI from my corporate taxes I guess I'd be cool with it.


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbqom9w wrote

UBI is pointless if you can still go bankrupt getting sick or hurt in America. Without universal healthcare UBI becomes a socialized emergency savings account assuming people will be responsible with it and won't try and abuse or game the system hence need for controls instead of free shit no strings attached.

After all this time I still have no idea what your views or principles are on the matter...

No stigma of therapy. It helped my anger issues and prevented me from doing things like insulting strangers online to get my point across along with other behavior that results in violence if directed to the wrong person when you can't hide behind a keyboard.

If you get UBI consider martial arts...good investment. Maybe even better than therapy.

Therapy helped me become a responsible, employable adult.

I don't want to ask how old you are but if you're above the age of 25 take a very deep look at how you communicate and ask yourself if anyone would trust or want to be around you based off how you act online. You don't come off as the "golden rule" type but I could be wrong.

No's genuinely concerning that this is the attitude I see all the time with angry young men...disconnected from society who are vulnerable and at risk of radicalization from various movements that prey on them.


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbqhlb7 wrote

I'm not going after you or viewing you as the enemy... you just come off like you've got poor communication skills and an abrasive personality ranting about capitalism and calling me a bitch.

Instead of having a civil discussion you jumped straight to ad-homenim and SIGN:

Shame. Insults. Guilt. Need to be right.

I read your comment history telling people to go to therapy and here you are accusing me of projection because I brought up the real possibility of people abusing social welfare benefits like they already do...

Which is why universal healthcare is a better deal than UBI...because that same therapy you think others need would be free if you considered it yourself.

Don't worry...2030 is around the corner. You'll own nothing and you'll be happy.


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbqd313 wrote

Thank you...there seems to be a misconception with some that it's just gonna be free money with no strings attached.

All that you described is normal now but I can see problems when they dictate what you can eat, how far you can travel (and if you can travel), and what you can say online.

The concern is that if you're rich you won't have to play by those if you can eat a fat steak on a private jet while skipping your latest booster shot because you're scared of side effects.

There's already comedy videos about it

This one is probably most dystopian:

It's fascinating to think what life would be like but tbh I hardly think it'll be that extreme of a dystopia and far from the utopia people imagine.


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbqad2r wrote

The funny thing is that the rich actually support UBI...look at what the World Economic Forum says about it.

COVID was the trial run and mistakes were made...lessons were learned. They want UBI tied to social credit scores, vaccine passes, and other methods to keep people in line.

I basically think what it'll boil down to are three classes of people:

-The wealthy that don't need UBI so they can fly wherever, eat whatever, and not have to abide by all the rules because they're rich.

-The compliant who conform to whatever is required to get UBI which could mean many things...all tracked by social credit score.

-Luddites on the fringes of society that don't want UBI or the rules that come with it so they basically come together as a commune (travelling gypsies) as the state chases them down to track and monitor everything they do.


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbq8ypo wrote

Would you be against social credit scores to obtain UBI?

I think I've identified the elephant in the room which is government control.

Even if you abolish capitalism you still have the state...

I don't think the government is just gonna give free money with no strings attached.

They will tie UBI to things like a social credit score, no unpaid taxes, no warrants, up to date vaccines and health screenings if you want to travel...etc.


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbq6x0x wrote

It's not nonsense. If people sell EBT for drug money outside the system you should expect the government to enforce controls on who gets UBI and how they can use it.

Social credit scores, no outstanding taxes, no warrants...etc.

If you think the government is just gonna give free shit with no strings attached you're fooling yourself.


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbq5jv0 wrote

Acting like $700 a month will fix everything in our economic model is foolish.

What good is UBI when people can still go bankrupt when they get sick?

Universal healthcare is a better deal.

Pretending that UBI will unleash some form of utopian society is far too optimistic given the level of economic inequality we are seeing.

You haven't explained why I'm wrong...and in fact you look foolish calling me lazy.

Here's why:

Say I am lazy...what measures will be put in place for people like me who will use UBI to smoke and fuck all day?

People already sell EBT for drug money in an underground economy. Do you think the government (which has already locked us down and tried to force vaccine mandates) will just give me free money without some form of control or regulatory framework to prevent abuse?

Look at the abuse and fraud in the PPP think they're gonna repeat those same mistakes without some form of control like blockchain or a CBDC system that tracks every transaction with the capability to audit and inspect on the level of an electron microscope?

All I'm saying is that UBI will come with strings attached and serious controls to prevent abuse and the free rider problem.

To expect the government to give people free money with no strings attached is asinine...


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbpzbdk wrote

You're on target more than most probably realize. We would be better off with treating healthcare as a public good. People often go into poverty when they get sick in America.

Without fixing healthcare people would have to responsibility use UBI as a savings tool for medical emergencies or any other emergency that can result in financial problems and poverty.

People also forget that UBI is essentially printing increase in the money supply equals inflation. We are already seeing what that is like...

I think universal health care is a better idea.

I would be an entrepreneur if my healthcare wasn't tied to my job. If you can still wind up in poverty with outrageous healthcare and housing inflation what good is UBI?


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbpwbbt wrote

Good point. Those people have enough money not to worry about money though. UBI is a concern for the poorest of the poor and decimated middle class.

If the working clas didn't have to bang on a machine in a dangerous factory what would they do?

I obviously don't think everyone will pursue hedonism but I say that because I certainly would.

I'm tired of working hard in a system where hard work isn't always rewarded. Sadly, hard work is all I have to succeed so it's a catch 22.

If I got UBI I'd continue boxing, making cbd products, and perhaps continue to work my normal job where everyone is overworked and underpaid.

I bring up the issues I mention because people already sell their EBT for drugs so it's very likely that UBI will be very regulated and controlled to prevent abuse...think blockchain...citizen credit score...etc.

They'll definitely impose controls on recipients...


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbpvjzx wrote

I actually studied Marxism and this particular economist in depth:

I am very critical of capitalism. We probably share many similar views but can't relate and will never relate due to how emotional you respond.

I come from a family of drug addicts btw. They're all dead or in jail.


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbpug25 wrote

It's called the free rider problem and it has always been a central concern in the study of economics and public goods.

It's not's a genuine problem in economics that economists have tried to address since forever.

This one too:

Any discussion of UBI has to confront these issues.

I wish I had UBI to relax. I haven't taken PTO since April 1st last year. Way to use adhomenim and contribute nothing of value to a very high level intellectual topic.


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbpoerh wrote

It's not pessimistic it's realistic. It's going to come with strings attached to keep people in line. Economics has always had the free rider problem and you can't pretend it won't be an issue with UBI.

It's every technocrats wet dream because it can give an incentive for societal compliance.

Unless you're wealthy enough not to need it that is...


GoodbyeCOI t1_jbpndus wrote

Not everyone...but you're partially right. If you're interested in what motivates people this is good:

It lists purpose but within a capitalist and performance based model.

If people don't have to work they can openly pursue pleasure. It's nice when that means art or sport or something cool but sadly pleasure is purpose for many.

Look at the drug addled streets of Philadelphia or any ghetto.

My argument is that UBI will simply come with strings attached to keep people in line. To get it you'll need all your vaccines and maybe even birth control if you have a bad social credit score and would in turn most likely make a terrible parent.

It's sad but can anyone tell me it ain't true?



GoodbyeCOI t1_jbplu3j wrote

Maybe...we're more likely to stop reproducing if anything.

Imagine that being tied to UBI and social credit scores. There's no such thing as a free lunch. You can pretend that people will do creative things for the common good if they didn't have to work but chances are they'll just drink, smoke, and fuck all day.

Brazil has already tied their version of UBI to COVID vaccination compliance. I'm not making any kind of argument or trying to discuss vaccines but just showing the slippery slope of UBI.

It will be used to control and tied to social credit scores...but it'll likely be sold as freedom.

Only the rich who don't need UBI will get the privilege to live outside the rules.