IdealAudience t1_jap72d3 wrote

I would guess something like 10 years to transition, at least,

remote control robo will probably beat unsupervised program in the field for many things .. at first .. increasingly with A.i. tips and hints and info and taking over more and more . . humans able to supervise 2, 4 .. jump in when necessary . 8. 20 .. .

But from home .. where-ever there's fast enough internet ..

- how many manual laborers and technicians does that = ? , globally ?

- when we can train virtually, and practice jobs, and stack 8 to a bot.. work from home 20 minutes when you feel like it, locally, globally, young, old, ugly, shy . .


Legions swarming to pick an orchard, locally or globally .. then zip to the next bunch of bots 1000 km away, while A group gets on a truck and drives down the road...

- if that doesn't = cheap or free food, we're doing it wrong.

Swarm to prepare and assemble a factory-made neighborhood .. if that doesn't = affordable or free housing, we're doing it wrong.

And so on.. heart surgery wherever .. repair .. clean any toxic junk ..

- increasingly a.i.

I'd join a union or co-op if I were you, and hire the same. It doesn't have to be dystopia.. though good is far from guaranteed.


IdealAudience t1_ja9a0q0 wrote


Yes. yes. .. though some notes -

Good to not wait for super super God a.i. .. and hope that all works out for the best,

for a couple reasons -

Well, you know, it is entirely possible to get a significant number of people half-way there in the next decade, or sooner .. that's good.. for a couple reasons..

But with however many hundreds of organizations and non-profits for x, y, z - some have A+ project management Platforms already - we're inches away from better, smarter, more cooperative, more scientific method-y peer-networks ..

peer-reviewing projects, comparing, determining best practices, sharing tools.. avalanches of smart cooperative network help to the Good demonstrating Good .. and to those in need ..

and the politically strategic districts - big impacts if a lot of suffering people get non-profit housing and healthy food and online education and rehabs .. and whatnot .. without a trillion dollar media campaign election poisoning them against it, first - smart cooperative networks can avalanche support and help and teaching and training and remote work .. .. .. and get good done .. .. . then some people who are getting help may well vote for good coordinators of good programs into gov over bags of crap with just angry commercials..

Then more good gets done with good coordinators of good projects in Gov + smart cooperative networks .. more support for more funds to go to non-profit services .. more good coordinators of good programs elected ..

other cities see that and want that also .. Repeat.. without angry campaigns getting in the way.

- if done well, a.i. management, virtual world models for management and teaching and training and demonstration + proposal development / testing / revision .. + remote robo workers' co-op .. + biotech.. . can help significantly. . . if done well.

+ Media artists' network .. helping with the demonstration of good projects, teaching, training, virtual models of existing and proposals ... .. on into daily life guidance, therapy, beneficial fiction showing healthy problem solving . . .. on into 'life in post scarcity valley college town theatre garden' virtual world .. .. version 406, 407, 408 .... + fullfillment education, daily life guidance, therapy, healthy community + a.i. characters .. doing good .. if done well.

+ Academia smart cooperative network(s) / topic / subtopic .. helping eachother + media team + grad-students in econ -> beneficial economics team .. food systems team, psych, social sci, medical, urban design .. .. whathave you .. + non-profit teams + media + virtual worlds + proposals .. .. + community colleges, undergrads, teachers' cooperative networks, schools ..

+ Solidarity economy networks - topic / subtopic .. artisans, co-ops, unions, democratic shops, credit unions .. solidarity economy supply chains / mutual services + non-profits + academia .. + eco/social beneficial investment portfolios .. amazon alternatives.. ..

Local political party chapter topic / subtopic team network ..

hosptials, nurses ..

and whathaveyou.

Anyway, entirely possible to get more affordable housing, healthy food, workplaces with wednesdays and fridays off, better free college, virtual models of non-profit eco-villages we can build with greenhouses and gardens and bikepaths .. and so on .. in 2024, 2025 .. ..

and get howevermuch help to more suffering angry frustrated people .. help them get to good .. maybe help ..

and get more good coordinators of good projects into Gov / -bad gov

- a lot more if we're using smart scientific networks, a.i., remote robo.. well.


So.. the other reason ..

The next decade, or whatever, transition period .. can get very ugly if we aren't already networking + providing + delivering + supporting + .. . .

If however many people are unemployed and not making rent and not getting healthy media and smart cooperative networks + problem solver teams to go to .. ..

there is going to be virtual world and social media poison going on -no matter what- legions of gremlins and a.i. chatbot gremlins and sexy virtual friends .. with the goal to keep your neighbors away from seeing / helping / supporting / buying from / investing in / working at / wanting / voting for funds towards / good coordinators into Gov ..
at least

but at worst .. inspire angry frustrated unemployed scared people who aren't getting help from Gov ..
+ being attacked by right wing .. and police .. and 'Fascist Gov is coming to kill you'
- inspire some angry scared suffering frustrated people into shooting at a protest, riots, gang wars, shooting back, 'bolshevik' rev, and whatever guillotines are supposed to imply, attack the rich, politiians, oil pipelines to save the planet - "its the only way, Gov is broken.. .. "

- some social media gremlins / bolsheviks might imagine they'll win the bloody rev and put in a happy utopia land .. that's not likely to happen for a lot of reasons ..

- but others are under-cover 4th reich or foreign -or super evil a.i. - knowing damn well the right wing and trillionaires and gov do not just apologize and give up.. they fight back - avalanches of panic fear media - 'barbarian bolsheviks are coming to kill you and bun everything and take over ... and Dem govs are useless " .. . millions of scared conservos join or support Hard Right - more gang wars/ more gang wars more panic media (supporting the Patriot defenders of course vs. the barbarians that must be stopped by every means necessary ) - Hard right warlords win elections over 'weak' Dems .. or Dems who dared to stop right wing gangs ..

Hard right gov

against left ..

either moderates give up the radicals ... or 'it's go time' .. .. (social media gremlins and virtual gremlins will be dumping avalanches of 'its go time' ) yadda yadda yadda increasingly militarized Hard Right Robots / a.i. in Gov / suppression or civil war or warlord period . . eventually Hard right robo warlords.


instead of good coordination of good topic teams = a bunch more good gets done .. a bunch of people getting help from good programs doing good - voting for good coordinators of good programs into Gov - more gov contracts / vouchers to non-profits and good shops for public services ..

- but that's not guaranteed.. and we're pretty far from ' Super heroes and robo and a.i. got this all covered, don't worry about it, just watch netflix and just vote'.


IdealAudience t1_j88el0d wrote , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

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IdealAudience t1_j7cfolq wrote

- Maybe a random Reddit q&a fixes the world - didn't see that coming.

But your question in and of itself points to a significant problem - I do hope we can go forward more systematically .. boot-strap -human- neural networks for Topic x, y, z / location / year..

and it seems like we're inches away .. all the pieces are there but right now we're cave-men using petrol as paint.. so to speak.. mostly using social networks to yell at memes or trolls.. mostly using cyber-worlds for grand theft auto or fortnite dances..

but we're inches away from (better?) reddit groups -or whatever the kids are using these days- for Topic x, y, z / 2023, 2024, 2025.. and so on .. / location

(or vice versa)

- better collect, collate, compare side-by-side - the hundreds of predictions, proposals, existing prototypes and projects, for x, y, z / year / location.

under scenario - red alert, orange alert, fixing yellow, green is good, blue is super-good,

purple is if fusion power happens.

+ non-fiction and (realistic?) fiction showing this or that

- compare, grade on a curve.

Grad-students for x, y, z / college towns / year .. seems like a smart place to start networks and teams - if they don't have smart cooperative networks already .. should have the means and mutual benefit.. spread to professors, under-grads, community colleges, teachers, non-profits, futurists, city council teams for x, y, z .. regional ...
/ topic-network / year / location ..

More scientific method-y - better show and teach and peer-review existing systems, projects, spread best-practices ..

+ support controlled trials of prototypes, with smart cooperative peer-network support, help, peer-review, determine best-practices, de-bug, teaching training, retest, repeat ..

before National roll-out or national campaigns or 'bring in all the a.i. bots everywhere all at once' ... or 'radical economic system everywhere all at once' .. or whathaveyou.

& there's a lot more that can be done if cooperative networks of media artists are working with other teams to help demonstrate, educate, train best-practices and proposals .. ( and vice versa - psych grad students helping cooperative networks of media artists with more beneficial, educational, theraputic ... non-fiction, fiction, fantasy, and un-dystopias - better engineered for target audiences )

But realistic fiction + non-fiction Cyber-city models / massive multiplayer online worlds - desktop or virtual - + a.i. assistants / guidance .. can bring us leaps ahead in a hurry - allow us the opportunity to better model existing systems / prototypes - peer-review, teach, train, remote-help, support ..

& -virtually- any conceiveable proposal or prediction or 'what-if'

- generic or in-situ.. .. cold, controlled, or public - with however many trolls and hackers..
- cooperatively develop, test, de-bug, peer-review, compare variations, determine best-practices, teach, train, revise, re-test
before building this or voting for that .. or saying 'ok, bring in the all the a.i. bots'

And model every conceivable emergency scenario .. and dystopia ... collect / compare / model - more systematically / topic / year

.. and un-emergency / un-dystopia proposals .. more systematically ..

"We absolutely need to do H in response to G.. and do F to prepare.. E to reduce harm, D to prevent .." - version 1 vs. version 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 ..
develop with peers who care - test, peer-review, compare variations, determine best-practices, teach, train, revise, re-test

= Reverse-engineer more resilient near-future proposals & prevention .. test, peer-review, compare variations, determine best-practices, teach, train, revise, re-test.
better than just worry or doomism

better than just worry or doomism driving our neighbors to think bloody revolution or system collapse ( or 'just have fun while it lasts' or 'just vote' or 'just get a gun' . or 'don't worry, a magic gizmo is going to solve everything' .. ) are the only options.

Competing versions of literally impossible systems may de-bug themselves or eachtother under honest modeling / testing - hopefully take on more and more rational, feasible support for existing good projects that are delivering good ..

or hopefully cyber world models of impossible systems or bloody revolutions.. will allow the rest of us to more effectively communicate drawbacks and short-comings.

+ frustratingly robust un-emergency / un-dystopia proposals, prevention, & -anti-fragile- smart cooperative networks / teams for x, y, z.. designed to withstand atomic war or robot war or gang war ..

+ better reasonable proposals for how to get from Memphis to a Better Memphis, teaching, training, support.. better show successful existing prototypes.. teach, train, cooperative network help, and support, a.i. assistants... beneficial fiction + education, guidance.. . .


IdealAudience t1_ixnv73n wrote

AZ has 800,000 cows @ 20 ? gallons / day.. that don't need to be there .. and a lot of ridiculous cotton fields..

CA has 5.2 million cows that don't need to be there.. 47% of the state's water -


IdealAudience t1_iwid5ao wrote

Reply to comment by [deleted] in A typical thought process by Kaarssteun

Mary Shelly (frankenstein) 's dad - William Godwin, wrote against Malthus at the time - that humans were more creative than rabbits, or could be, that good environment & society & education (& democratic workplaces & government) and conditions, and so on - would likely bring anyone into a healthy productive adulthood, rather than packs of monsters..

tragic to think malthusian thinking influnced some tremendously wealthy nobility to let poor londoners, or irish during the potato famine, or people in india just die off - 'as nature running its course'.. though (hopefully) we now see these as entirely preventable..

unfortunately, it seems a lot of fear about 'too many people in africa in 2050' follow the same malthusian lines.. and again, tragedy is certainly preventable.. sustainable systems and healthy cities are possible..

but... the people making billions and millions (and $200k) off of SuperEvilMegaPollutoCorp are good at what they do, as far as that goes - & they're entirely capable, apparently, of getting plenty of media to convince their consumers, workers, & voters within 2000km of their headquarters - that this whole climate disaster thing + high rents and low wages, and whathavyou - is due to too many people in africa + too many people in africa getting apartments and microwave ovens and schools and vaccines..

"there's just too many people of those people" consumers in rich-countries say, in between their 3rd baconcheeseburger of the day, in between driving a ridiculous truck 80km between their mini mansion heated by a coal plant & working for SuperEvilMegaPollutoCorp Jr., and back ..

'just let nature take it's course with the diseases and droughts and famines and civil wars.. problem solved.. then the rest of us can keep on doing what we're doing'

"What? you want to put carbon labels on beef? petrol? tax SuperPollutoMegaCorp? tax Billionaires? give their billions in subsidies to renewables and greenhouses and metro-lines? You want to build apartments over the grocery store?

no way.. this is an outrage, tyranny, stalinism.. the problem is too many people in africa & too many people in africa getting microwave ovens .. let them die or sell them AK47s.. problem.solved. "

and so on.


IdealAudience t1_iwiao11 wrote

Reply to comment by tikkymykk in A typical thought process by Kaarssteun

get into local food-systems teams to help more people get better food, easier, more affordably, more eco/socially beneficial to good fair growers, co-ops, restaurants..

along with others who care + vegetarians & gardening clubs & college ag grad-students & food banks & sikhs..

x smart cooperative networks of teams helping eachother + sharing tools, best-practices, teaching, training.. comparing projects, programs, prototypes..

x avalaches of smart cooperative network help to good projects doing good + teaching, training.. avalanches of smart cooperative network help to projects in need.. + prototypes..


IdealAudience t1_iw75wbr wrote

If A.i. art has collapsed the werewolfporn market you were using to pay the rent on your $2k/month crappy apartment by the freeway..


Imagine a society where a.i. research & city-system management & automation & remote-controlled robots & biotech & cyberworlds.... & a.i. art... etc..

are used eco/socially beneficially - to make / provide eco/socially beneficial healthy food, housing, cities, towns, orchard parks with bikepaths, nice fair easy eco/socially beneficial workplaces, economics, finance, video and cyberworld education, training, beneficial fiction, daily life guidance, mental healthcare..

affordably, free basics? for more people, everyone? locally, globally?


Alright, now draw that.. + proposals for how to get from here to there..

A.i. art can help.

animate, cyberworlds, characters in cyberworlds, teaching, training, beneficial fiction..

There are some professional plans and proposals already - for more eco/socially beneficial systems, designs, workplaces, economies, towns.. in boooooring essays, books, research reports, lectures.. that your neighbors are never going to read..

& there are a decent number of decent systems, cities, towns, shops, existing now.. it would benefit the other 98% of the world to see and review and know about and learn about and train and copy..

A.i. art can help.


IdealAudience t1_iw30v0n wrote

Worry doesn't do any good, though neither does 'whatever, man', and prayer..

what else is there?

we could make browser bookmark folders + reddit groups for 2023, 2024, 25, 28, 32, 36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56...

scene A, B, C, D, E, F..

from utopia to dystopia and all that's in between.. better organize tech / conditions / year / scenario / location .. discuss


+ un-dystopia proposals.. essays, non-fiction, realist fiction, animation, + a.i. animation, cyber-world models + a.i. avatar teachers, tutors, guides..

/ develop, peer-review, compare, revise, re-test, share best practices,

/ teams for x, y, z.. teach, train.. smarter, more cooperative networks for x, y, z ..

+ reverse-engineer prevention, more sustainable systems, & resilient systems, back-up systems - test in cyber-worlds, peer-review, compare, share-best practices, revise, re-test,

-> more resilient near-future proposals.


IdealAudience t1_iu9knxc wrote

sure, great, if done well.. I've used these, or something like it + for news articles.

- there's a bot here on reddit -

Hard to see how that could be used for evil, unless horribly inaccurate or purposefully manipulated.. maybe let the summaries get an upvote / downvote from respectable experts who have read the paper.

next step - helping to sort the avalanche of papers / reports / and their data - into effective categories..


and then like a super netflix or amazon recommendation engine - which papers are getting 3, 4, 5 stars (from respectable reviewers.. over time) ..

what do those have in common..


IdealAudience t1_iu7ybxz wrote

I really like Life 3.0, I think it's still on youtube ,

I haven't heard - , but I've seen some speeches, and he seems to have a solid perspective.

four futures - peter frase,

& in the same vein - Manna by Marshall Brain (non-magic fiction)

and if you can read -


IdealAudience t1_isfovsn wrote

Tier lists from worst to best (ideally backed by good data), ESG ratings (environmental, social, & governance) - like social credit scores for companies (and politicians?) - aren't perfectly done, yet, but I see that as a primary way forward..

Along with better cyber-models of existing operations and proposals for review.

Of course a lot more effective when more consumers, investors, skilled workers, contracts, & government funding are going to good X over evil Y.. but we can make that more obvious and easier with better ratings and platforms.

A.i. can absolutely help to gather that data, crunch those numbers, make comparisons, 'Amazon' recommendations (ideally an eco/socially beneficial alternative) and eco/social beneficial investment portfolios.


Obviously a bit more complicated to achieve true, deep, sincere environmental and social concern and virtuous action among oligarchs and business students & politicians and media..

(we can probably help this along with better engineered cyber-world education, training, guidance, therapy, community.. + medication, psychedelics.. )

But in the meanwhile, we can do better to help people, workers, consumers, voters, city councils.. move their $ and labor towards the better, away from the worst.. make 'the game' only winnable by the more ethical, most ethical, the most eco/socially beneficial..

to make low wages, exploitation, energy footprint.. on par with obvious racism, sexism, pollution.. generally bad for business.

Clearly some executives and boards and politicians were just going along with being not-racist and not-sexist only on the surface .. to win the game .. but for the purposes of this experiment, that's progress..

Meanwhile, genuinely good, beneficial, ethical, effective etc. shops, projects, programs, program coordinators.. should be getting more support, investment, skilled ethical workers, contracts, community partners, smart cooperative network help.. and so on, while evil mega-corps and bags-of-crap are trying to change gears.