JPR_FI t1_jdz2g59 wrote

What is the use of supreme court of 34 people if the rest of the system does not function properly ? They cannot take all the cases and the ones they do take a long time to process. Even currently the system is abused and used for harassment. For examples see the report from Amnesty or any other human rights organization of your preference.
All the organizations report slide since 2014 and as I said I hope to see it improve, but yet seen no evidence of that.


JPR_FI t1_jdyz7fn wrote

Given that the justice system is already used to harass human rights activists, journalists and opposition you cannot rely on supreme court alone to do the right thing.

I do hope India reverses the slow slide, but nothing I see in the reports from the various organizations suggests that rather the opposite. If the fundamentals of democratic values are not there then its democratic in name only.


JPR_FI t1_jdwltfm wrote

I really don't; over the decades Russia lost freedom of press, concentrated power, has plenty of human rights violations and corruption while claiming to be some sort of democracy. While that is not the case in India at the moment some of the similar things can be observed. If the issues persist and worsen what is there to stop it so that in 20+ years its not all gone ?


JPR_FI t1_jdwjokb wrote

Of course they do, but not relevant for discussion about Indian democracy. Or how does the problems in US or anywhere else justify anything ? Human rights are universal an inalienable feel free to criticize any violations anywhere, just do not use them as excuse.
Again the comparison is not that India is anywhere near Russian level, that is not the point, never was. The point is that Russia is an example what can happen in worst case scenario when democratic values are ignored. It does not happen suddenly rather over time.

This is not unique to India either, its happening in all over the globe in various degree and that is why it is important to fight it everywhere. Staying silent and ignoring the issues will not fix anything it will just make the situation worse.


JPR_FI t1_jdwei2s wrote

There we are agreement I am really struggling to understand why human rights and freedom of press etc. are "small threats" instead of the foundation for democracy. To me when they are abused democracy is under threat and I cannot fathom why anyone would think otherwise. What is a democracy where freedom of press is non-existent and violations of human rights are abundant ?


JPR_FI t1_jdwb156 wrote

So we are going to just ignore the "small threats" part ? Nice.

Who is saying that India is going to collapse rapidly, not me for sure. Russia is authoritarian but there was glint of democracy sometime late 90s, took them 20+ years to descend to what it is now. India by no means is there yet, but Russia is a cautionary tale what can happen when the democratic values are ignored. The war in Ukraine did not make Russia authoritarian rather the exact opposite, because of it Putin was able to start the invasion.

Again you cannot have stable democracy with the human rights and freedom of press violated, that is also part of the reason why EIU lists India also as flawed democracy.


JPR_FI t1_jdw5hkf wrote

Seriously; small threats ? Small things like freedom of press (150/180) and flagrant violations of human rights reported by all organizations ? These are major things that democracy cannot survive with indefinitely as seen in Russia recently. Democracy is more than free elections one has to also abide by democratic values.


JPR_FI t1_jdw0dwd wrote

There you go again trying to invalidate V-Dem. Again the different indexes measure different things so they have variation. You can find the details in wiki for EIU which uses 60 indicators and the V-Dem uses 470 indicators so obviously there would be differences. It is not to say that more is always better but it is more granular and takes into account more things.

V-dem is used and trusted by numerous organizations so I will use that, feel free to use EIU if you think its better. I do hope India can reverse its path, but while democratic values like human rights and freedom of press are threatened it is not likely.


JPR_FI t1_jdvs1ra wrote

So the democratic values are not under threat ? You may want to let the various organizations know, they are reporting the opposite.

Again (like I have explained to you multiple times) the indexes measure different things. All of them do agree that democratic values are under threat in India. V-Dem is open data set and trusted by numerous organizations such as world bank. At least this time you did not misrepresent the data in effort to invalidate it so I guess that is progress.