The most southern part of Canada shares the same latitude as Northern California.

Does being asymptomatic mean you cannot transmit the virus to others?

And they will continue to mutate and evade the narrow and short lasting immunity offered by these vaccines.

The comment I replied to claimed they prevented infections.

Animal models.

Double blind placebo controlled trial involving people in roles involving frequent contact.

Similar model for phase 3 but using larger groups in broader community.

The important thing is to have put forth an effort to do so, and to collect this data in the long term without muddying the water by unblinding the control groups. This has not been the case here from what I’ve seen. It’s not going to be perfect, obviously in times of emergency especially, but that doesn’t change the facts at hand.

But on the subject of ethics, would it be ethical to tell people to get vaccinated with a brand new technology, and claim “you’re doing your part” by reducing transmission, if you have no data to support that claim to begin with?

Do you have any data to suggest that these vaccines effectively reduce the rates of transmission? If so, by what rate?

Secondly, are you suggesting that zero people who would fully recovered covid without vaccination, will suffer a death caused by an adverse event caused by these vaccines?

Do you know how many healthy people you need to vaccinate in order to statistically prevent a single covid death?

From what I’ve read, not effectively. That’s why I’m wondering if anyone has specific data on that, and isolated to identify the transmission rate reduction incurred purely by the vaccine, versus from previous infection.

Pfizer didn’t even test for transmission blocking during their trial prior to the mass vaccine rollout.

Even as spelled out in your comment, the vaccines do not induce herd immunity. They merely help to reduce death while herd immunity is being developed through natural infection.

Although you cannot qualify the efficacy of a vaccine simply by its ability to reduce severity of infection from the targeted pathogen. You need to look at all cause death over the long term.

I’ve never suggested that natural immunity doesn’t wane over time - although it does offer a more broad and durable immunity, meaning if you are exposed to subsequent variants, your immune response has a greater chance at offering protection, and your immune memory can be updated to recognize the contemporary variants in circulation.

Even if your immunity wanes, your lingering immune memory will allow your body to mount a more targeted immune response when compared to a first exposure to a novel virus.

We’re not talking about blocking infection. We’re talking about reducing death and serious illness.

You can attempt to avoid infection, although it’s unrealistic to effectively prevent while living a normal healthy life. Your best bet is to maximize your natural immune health, and focus on protecting the most vulnerable in society.

Agreed. Another big question is the comparable impact of vaccine immunity alone reducing transmission, compared to natural immunity from previous exposure. Nearly everyone has been exposed at this point, vaccinated or not. And we don’t have a very effective means at identifying a control group.

You implied that since the weakest among us are “murdered” by covid, the remaining population is more resilient.

I pointed out that the majority of “weak” individuals do recover. I explained that you’re describing a process of natural herd immunity that has existed long before vaccines were invented.

You also incorrectly claimed that the current vaccines could induce herd immunity for this type of respiratory virus.

No one is on “team covid”. You’re just bothered by people having a less hyperbolic take on the issue.

You cannot achieve herd immunity for this type of respiratory virus, with the current iteration of vaccines. I wish this wasn’t the case.

I have at no point downplayed the seriousness of covid. I just pointed out that your previous statement was objectively incorrect.

But the overwhelming majority of people who have been infected, even those with multiple comorbidities, have fully recovered from their infections.

But in general you’re describing the longstanding concept of herd immunity.

The vast majority of people have already been exposed and developed some form of natural immunity, with or without the vaccines.

No one of an accomplished background in infectious diseases would suggest that avoiding the virus altogether is a realistic strategy.

Sure, I agree. But I’m wondering if you know of any data that suggests an estimated reduction in transmission rates associated with these vaccines.

Do you have any data on the estimated reduction in transmission?

Anyone know if this accounts for natural immunity from previous infection?

“My bf is hung like a barnacle” just doesn’t roll off the tongue. ...Or does it?

One time in college I was walking my drunk ass home and decided to get a slice of pizza. While paying I see the back screen door of the joint swinging open just a crack, then 1, 2 and then 3 raccoons scamper across the floor.

They didn’t even look around. They knew exactly what they were doing. I slur something like “dude, yer getn robbed” and this dude turns around the bandits freeze in their steps and look at us like children caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

Dude just calmly says “guys, hey, come on.”, and they still don’t move. He walked over to the door, opened it, and said “out”. The raccoons just kind of looked at each other and then slowly walked back out the door.

Buddy walks back over to me shaking his head “fucking trash pandas”.

Apparently they lived in the alley out back and were usually pretty chill. The pizza was maybe a 7/10.