LLJKCicero t1_j5r58x4 wrote

> Nonetheless NATO definitely shouldn't be meddling that far east.

Ukraine is a sovereign country with more-than-obvious reason to be worried about Russia. Of course they want to join NATO, they have excellent reasons for wanting that.

Framing is as "NATO meddling" is bullshit dictator apologia. Try asking Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania how "NATO meddling" has gone for them.

> Russia has all the reason to not want NATO expanding to its borders

You mean the borders NATO is already at, especially with the Baltic states? You make it sound like NATO isn't already there. How much has NATO used those countries to invade Russia so far?

And yes, Russia has an obvious reason for not wanting NATO to expand further along its borders: it makes it much harder for them to invade anyone, slaughter civilians, and take more land.

> The war is dumb as hell and needs to end, people are dying so two world powers can flex and exhaust

Obviously. But Russia can leave whenever they want and it'd be fine. Ukraine giving up means surrendering land and the ongoing lives of those people to Russian control, or even giving up their entire state, as Putin tried in the beginning of last year.

Russia needs to be forced to stop. Any other outcome is favoring Putin.