It may be that primary order is a non-issue for people but the push to move SC first indicates it isn’t a meaningless issue for a lot of other people, its one people put weight on. That people think it is important is why this fight is occurring. And NH’s FITN primary is a part of the political culture of NH, so taking that away is a little more precarious. There’s a reason that all of the State officials felt comfortable coming out strong against this (including state Demparty).

And of those five states you referenced , 3 were deep red so they were never at risk for GOP. The two purple states they played with in 2020, Arizona and Nevada, both went for Biden and both of the toss up Senate seats went blue. Can’t say that the canceled primary was the reason but I don’t think we can say with confidence that voters didn’t tag them for it.

NH has open primaries so it will stop independent voters who want to weigh in on Dem candidates from doing so.

Main point in all of this is that the DNC picked an unwinnable fight and are posturing to significantly reduce the presence of the party in a purple state with an all-blue delegation. And they are doing this in service of something that you say voters don’t care about: primary order. It’s so stupid and is just them shooting themselves in the foot. And it was done in bad faith. This does not strike me as something the DNC really thought through.

> This was going to happen sooner or later.

Maybe so. But if that’s the case, they could have gone about it in good-faith. If they were intending to move NH to Super Tuesday, then just say that; just have that be the initial proposal. And if you are going to pick a state that is more racially diverse, pick one that makes sense in the larger scheme of things rather than the one that looks an awful lot like a political kickback to a state that helped propel the current president to the WH. Pick one that is purple or reliably democratic. One that is more religiously diverse and better represents the country and Dem voters on that front.

And I don’t think everyone in the DNC is being vindictive (I certainly think some are), I just think they are needlessly picking a fight that they cannot win. And one that isn’t going to help them with purple voters who have currently sent an all-blue delegation to Washington. And it’s one that hands the GOP a lot of assets that I’m sure they are thrilled to have.

> I also don't really care what happens with RNC.

Nor do Republicans about the DNC. It’s why the DNC will be the ones people blame (to the extent people blame anyone) if they choose to disenfranchise NH voters.

> So NH can indeed go second if they were to go along with the rules?

If they comply with DNC demands that the DNC is well-aware they can’t comply with, then yes. Which is why it is transparent bad faith and the intended effect is to move NH to Super Tuesday. It’s not correct to say NH would be going second under this proposal.

It’d be like me saying that I will vote for Biden in 2024 if he gets single-payer healthcare pushed through. I could pretend that means I’m giving him a chance to win my vote, but we all know that if I set out that criteria, all I’m really saying is I wouldn’t be voting for Biden in 2024.

NH isn’t throwing out Dem primary results, DNC is the one saying they would do that. And yes, I think a lot of NH Dems would be irked by that. Needless fight for DNC to pick.

Imagine if the shoe were on the other foot: Dem gov sits in statehouse and Dems control legislature and RNC says - okay state Republican Party, we are going to not count state Republican primary votes unless the state adopts the gerrymandered congressional map drawn up by Republicans. The Dem reaction, once the laughter stopped, would be something along the lines of: are you serious - who do you think you are - go pound sand.

Dems would be thrilled at the intraparty fighting that comes out of that; state and national republicans fighting. Dems would get to say that GOP doesn’t care about your votes but Dems do. They would get to say that GOP outsiders think they can come into our state and tell us what laws we can have. Dems would get to mobilize in the state (a purple state) and message to voters without any response or pushback from the GOP. Dems would be thrilled to be in the position state GOP are in.

It’s that NH can go second if the Republican-controlled legislature and Republican governor agree to change the state law on primary date and agree to change laws to expand access to voting. Republicans in NH have made it clear well-before the DNC made this ask that they don’t support those measures and won’t agree to them.

I’ve got a couple of reasons I think NH shouldn’t relent but this isn’t the DNC moving NH 2nd. This is them moving NH to Super Tuesday. They knowingly put a poison pill in the terms that would allow NH to go 2nd. The DNC is acting in bad faith throughout this process.

The Dem Party is allowed to set its own rules, more or less, on how it picks a nominee for president. The general election is obviously much more governed by rules outside of the control of any one party.

Because all states now offer caucuses or primary elections, the major parties have settled on that system. But they don’t have to use it.

Dems are saying that they still want to pick their nominee using the primary process, but they want a different order.

The problem is that they can’t control the date a state holds their primary. So if a state does not change its primary date to match the Dem’s preferred schedule, DNC has two options: accept the primary and assign delegates at the national convention based on the primary results; or do not put weight on the primary.

The DNC is saying they will go with option 2. They say that if NH goes forward with the FITN primary, then NH will not get any votes at the national convention (or the votes will count for half) thereby limiting NH’s influence on the party’s nominee for president. The DNC has further said that if NH goes forward with the FITN primary, any candidate who campaigns in NH during the primary will not be invited to any DNC sponsored primary debates. So they are trying to use the leverage to get NH legislature to change their laws.

NH isn’t changing its laws, it’s going forward with FITN primary in 2024. Unclear what DNC will do. A few elections ago, DNC tried to get FL and MI to change its primary process, making threats similar to the ones they are making now. FL and MI didn’t make the changes the DNC wanted, but the DNC eventually relented and FL and MI’s votes were counted just like all of the others. Presumably that is what they will do here as well, but since NH is a smaller state, they may feel more empowered to cut it off and tell NH to fuck off. The problem with that is that NH is a purple state but has 2 blue congresspeople and 2 blue senators. Party should be a little wary of getting too adverse to NH, because they are going to need to protect those seats.

I see what you mean there. I think one big reason for the difference is that war chests and name recognition (both strengths of Clinton and Biden) don’t get a candidate as far in NH as they do in most other states. It’s probably the main reason I like NH going first: gives all candidates a pretty fair shake, even if they aren’t the richest or most well known.

Among the reasons DNC doesn’t want NH first, I suspect, is that NH is more likely to elevate a candidate not preferred by the DNC, relative to other states.

What do you mean primary data? If you’re taking about racial demographics, you’re certainly right, though that doesn’t change the problems with the decision by the DNC.

> NH isn't important in terms of the general election

It’s more important than South Carolina. NH is one of the few purple states that exist. SC is red.

> Can't imagine this will impact that.

I hope you are right, but I don’t see how you would be. Republicans are going to be the only show in town every presidential election. GOP will pour money into the state pushing GOP narratives. GOP candidates are going to be talking to voters and Dems will be absent. That alone helps push a state right. Dems are going to create a vacuum that GOP will happily fill. GOP primary money is going to create a larger network of organizers, while the Dem one atrophies. I think Shaheen and Hassan understand the threat this creates to their viability (as well as Dems at large) which is why you are hearing them speak out about this as they are.

Oh we aren’t, the law doesn’t permit it. But that doesn’t solve the problem so much as change the nature of it.

Dems telling NH voters that they are unimportant to the party is not helpful when we have two blue senate seats that are vulnerable.

SC is a bigger state, so candidates with large war chests and national name recognition have a greater leg up in SC than they would in NH, where candidates can easily make their way around the state. NH is better for good-but-unknown candidates to develop a national profile.

In terms of selfishness, NH, NV, and Iowa did not go for Biden in 2020 primary. SC was the first that did and one of Biden’s most important backers was Clyburn. That’s a factor here that has nothing to do with picking a good state to go first.

Why not seek out a purple state where it would be good to grow our presence and turn it blue? NC and GA are better choices if race is the determinative factor.

The reasoning makes sense. The thought that they could force NH to violate their own statute or change their laws to cater to the wishes of the DNC is insane. Not sure if they thought this one through.

It’s not about the ask, it’s about the fact that they have no ability to make this change and they are patently ridiculous for making the ask. The policies of the left are good. The DNC is a dumpster fire.

Absolutely. Same with Iowa and Nevada. All three have delegates to Bernie.

I’m far to the left but screw the DNC thinking it can bully NH like this. Grave miscalculation on their part.

I would bet the state is waiting for it to be federally legal so they can sell it directly like they do with alcohol.

I wish they wouldn’t wait for that, but I would bet that’s what’s happened.

If not, why the hell is the Live Free Or Die state ticketing people for using marijuana and arresting people who sell it? We are bleeding money to MA.