Yeah we won't. I honestly think most countries will fall to chaos 1st sadly.

Maybe a few billion dying will wake up the remaining people in time.

That would've been good 2 decades ago. We can't wait for that now.

Realistically we should be nationalizing most industries, completely shutting down useless ones, removing all non essential travel, ripping up roads and putting in massive rail networks in place with massive increases in nuclear plant construction.

Moving people from suburbs into either high density cities or rural areas used to support said cities, like we had before cheap oil.

And also providing people with the essentials to prevent mass civil unrest.

This is similar levels of effort that WW2 required.

Anything less at this point is just inviting disasters on a scale our species has never seen.

Edit: having renewables are great but they have a limit. They are good auxiliary power but cost compared to battery plants vs nulcear power favors nuclear fission. We can even add in further breeder reactors to get more energy out of previously spent fuel.

I hope it's only that small. I figure we will see large scale modern war with small and medium size nations fighting for what's left of arable land and water resources in their territory within 5 years.

A big one would be Ethiopia vs Egypt. Both rely heavily on the nile and have issues with food already stoking conflict.

I just hope it wont spread like wildfire across the planet.

I hope you're right. But I'm afraid I am. With el nino coming this summer it'll wreak another toll on our agricultural regions across the globe. We already had issues last year.

Just one more year of that and wars will start popping up in poorer nations across the planet. Lack of food creates insane amounts of political instability.

Which would've worked had this happened a decade or two ago.

It's too late for this slow shit now. El nino is coming and it'll supercharge the warming in key agricultural regions. We already had issues with farming yields last year. Another bad year or worse and we will see wars popping up all across the planet. Especially in poorer nations.

Lol. No they aren't. The people who are currently hopeful and optimistic are okay with slow progress, which isn't nearly fast enough anymore.

The people who started the french revolution vs their king were scared and had hatred for their rule, MLK and his followers were scared and hated the oppression.

Hopeful and optimistic people don't want change because the status quo is working great for them.

There is the threat of falling into authoritarianism. But that's always a threat as the US government is showing now with our shitty recent Supreme Court decisions.

Only works when we are actively lower emmisions period. Otherwise we hit basic thermodynamic limits.

My argument is the whole idea of "take it slow" would've been fine 2 decades ago. We past that point. We need drastic changes on the level of WW2 now.

Not this slow plodding shit.

Yep the economy would be drastically changed and frankly that needs to happen.

The US just authorized even more oil drilling in alaska and the gulf of Mexico.

I'm a pessimist now though. I don't think we get our shit together until a majority of humanity dies due to starvation and war.

Yes there is. Far too many people don't seem to understand what happens during massive famines. They forget the war and horror that quickly follows regardless of how "civilized" a country used to be.

People need to be scared and frightened. Or they won't change.

That "investment" thought is part of the problem. There won't be any worthwhile investments if countries end up tearing each other apart for food and water.

As for mental health yep I agree it sucks. But that's pretty much an expected symptom of our fucked up civilization at this point.

None of that matters since emmisions literally hit record highs last year. So clearly we are failing.

The time for incremental changes was 2 decades ago. We can't afford to do this slowly anymore.

That's not my argument. Mine is clearly our current economic and government systems are failing to slow climate change. Technology wont save us from civilization collapse alone.

It will require drastic changes now. WW2 levels of international effort in a very short amount of time.

We already had issues with farming in a huge number of significant regions last year. If that continues we will end up seeing the largest famine in human history in a decade or two.

El nino is coming this summer and it'll supercharge the warming we already see.

This is great but humanity literally had revord CO2 emissions in 2022 as well. Renewable energy being used in greater numbers only helps if CO2 emissions start to decrease.

Right now it looks like it's just adding more power on top of traditional carbon emitting sources.

Definitely nope. Then we will end up crazy house fires all the time with subcontractors hiring out their cousin to do electrical then only announcing it to the foreman who would conveniently forget it later.

And that's just the residential problems from unlicensed electrical work.

Imagine unlicensed civil engineering killing dozens a few years later and you find out that company already folded and the person who fucked up is already effectively gone.

Eh those people with money only have it as long a civilization is still around. Once that collapses all bets are off.

Hard to assert your authority over land you own vs a warlord who has way more guns and troops than you.

Even phasing out all coal by 2050 is far far too late.

This slow change stuff would've worked fine in the 90s and 2000s.

By overall GDP we are. I only went into GDP per capita when discussing actual effects on the population.

My argument about climate change is we can't keep global capitalism which is defined by endless economic growth. That's incompatible with actually surviving climate change.

Endless economic growth requires either energy increasing endlessly or increasing efficiency.

We literally cannot get to 100 percent efficiency thanks to thermodynamics.

And endlessly demanding more energy will just lead us back to climate change and resource depletion on this planet.

Finally, healthcare and life expectancy are two very important parts of a good human life. You can't just throw them away from the whole "people are getting better due to increasing GDP" argument.

No it doesn't. Our GDP is the best on the planet in the US. Life expectancy has dropped for the past several years. This includes before the pandemic.

There are many countries with much less GDP per capita that do markedly better on Healthcare for the majority of their citizens. As just one example of better lives.

Sure it's gotten better for the 1 percent and Americans and up. But again not better for the majority.

Wage growth for the majority of Americans has not beat inflation.

Yeah maybe look up climate change. It's a civilization ender. Especially if we can't farm because of wildly swinging temperatures and weather.

That's not enough. As indicated by scientists effectively screaming that we are heading towards doom and our emmisions literally got higher than ever before in 2022.

Okay yeah good point. The we there is the ruling bodies of humanity and they kinda dragged everyone else along.

The issue is we literally can't use that fuel to actually bring the carbon back out of the atmosphere. We run in laws of thermodynamics that stop us there.

Burning something that creates co2 and then using said energy to recapture it will end up in a net energy loss.

Constant economic growth does not mean constant progress. Unlesd of course you are counting billionaires wealth growth and inequality being the worst its ever been.

Oh and this little thing called climate change which we keep ignoring in favor of more economic growth.

So about 500 years of progress leading us to utter ruin. Not a great run for an economic system compared to the rest of human civilization's history.

Yep our entire economic system is set up for profits to increase every quarter forever. That's insanity but what we have collectively agreed on.

Oh I know. But that's literally 2 trillion less in profit for the capitalists controlling all of our governments.

That's less short term economic growth.

We would still need to not use the methanol fuel or we just dump the CO2 in the atmosphere again.

Eh not really if it significantly increases emmisions while building. Once we get emmisionless vehicles and equipment sure. Until then we are just making the problem worse.

It doesn't matter as long as we still emmit CO2 at a large scale. This would be great for use after we stopped emmisions.