budtoast t1_je21z9m wrote

Haha potentially, honestly I’m nervous for that because they could label it “inappropriate intoxication” while I’m viewing it as “taking the medicine my doctor told me I should try.”

But I don’t think that will happen soon if it does. Weed was just recently legalized recreationally so, I think the wrinkles will take a bit of time to be smoothed out. And medical use is still considered separate from recreational use, so we’ll see how things go. Because I can’t walk well without it, I don’t ever “look” high and I don’t ever act high in public either

Also thank you for clarifying- I didn’t think you judged harshly but I did want to throw my two cents in regarding the perception of addicts.

I actually do my best to make sure my belongings and everything in my house don’t smell after making edibles, because it’s like baking. Now everything in your house smells like weed. Premade edibles are very expensive so I can’t afford those- so my clothes and belongings usually really reek. It’s something I’m a bit self conscious about. I don’t want people to think I’m an addict because I’m trying to have pain relief, basically. It’s really annoying because some people will smell it and make jokes, but I’m actually really paranoid people judge me harshly.

Your complaints make sense. It’s weird that they are ok with tobacco but not MJ. I say keep both of them in designated smoking areas. If you want to smoke in public, go to the place where you can. But I don’t know, I’m not an expert on these things lol.


budtoast t1_je1v1gk wrote

Nope, you assumed what I meant by “them.”

I did bring up the right. Because they exist and they are most relevant here

I brought up that BOTH parties are not to be listened to. Especially republicans in this circumstance. You claimed that I was specifically talking about only republicans.

I did not change any goalposts and if I did, point out where. My point has always been the same. I’m apolitical, and anyone with eyes can see that the bags prey on conservative values. I encourage you to go back through the comments, because I did, and I’m noticing the sheer amount of times you just conviently ignored every point I make while I try to actually discuss your’s.

So who’s really debating here?

You didn’t address anything I said or highlighted, as expected. I did not put any words in your mouth, but you certainly have been doing that.

You’re still busy thinking about what YOU think I believe. You assumed so much about me from the beginning. Meanwhile I used if statements and openly said I am not sure what your political beliefs are, but that trying to get people to listen to republicans is a bad idea.

> “If you agree with those who disagree with me now, I’m nervous for your future. You’ve had ample time to listen to those on the left and change your perspective. If you’re not more center after that, I’m afraid you didn’t listen.”

When I said this, I’m not directly calling you a conservative, nor am I virtue signaling. I gave an example of harmful beliefs I had in the past and how I disavow them. If someone doesn’t disavow them in this day and age, I’m concerned for them. And I believe that if you truly want to listen to people like you say, you’d end up being more center than one way leaning. And my statement started with “If” which means, “IF you hold conservative beliefs…” (this is to point out that I never called you in particular a conservative)

Your comment was this in direct reference to specifically conservatives:

>”I see you don’t pay attention to those who don’t agree with you”

You are encouraging people to give republicans a chance, are you not? If you are not, tell me. I’ve said this entire time, I’m apolitical, I don’t think you should be trying to encourage people to listen to any one side, and if you are you’d be a hypocrite for leaning a specific way.

Here is where I think you’re trying to claim I’m a liar. You had this conversation before this:

>”Every republican accusation is a confession”

>”Same could be said of any political leaning”

>”No the fuck it can’t”

Then you say your part of listening to them, hearing them out, saying that this person is stupid for ignoring republican values. (“I see you don’t pay attention to people who don’t agree with you”) I chime in saying my piece, which is to break down the idea that we have to listen to the parties at all. And that in these circumstances, speaking up about “paying attention” to republicans on a post involving targeting republican opinions, I am worried for you. Especially if you’re someone who is apolitical and wanting to reject the parties altogether. That’s genuine worry because, again, as you seem to agree- the parties are echo chambers.

You decided to take what I said and assume virtue signaling and lying and making you look bad. You look fine. No one cares about how you look. No one is even looking at this thread

I’m trying to understand why you decided to go in circles and ignore the point this entire time. But I think it’s just because you can’t deny that these bags do, in fact, target conservatives. Don’t listen to them. Don’t give them a chance to “broaden your horizons.”

Anyone who calls themselves “conservative”, “republican”, “democrat”, “liberal” etc is obviously extremely party affiliated and therefore, their opinion is likely surrounded by echo chambers. I believe you’ve been trying to say that same thing but in a more esoteric way, as if I need to be enlightened by the position that the parties are nonsense. I know that.

This is from my first few replies to you:

>”You can be against the left. But if you think conservatives are against authoritarian ideals enough to try and defend them here, you’re just factually wrong (hence “if you’re not more center after that, you didn’t listen” from my first comment to you)”

I think my point was made fairly well during the beginning. Perhaps I should have said “defend listening to them here” but I’m afraid that’s a bit nit picky. You seemed to be defending the idea of hearing out republican opinions, saying “you don’t pay attention to anyone you disagree with.” I said “I don’t listen to party affiliated people, especially republicans because they are for authoritarian values” and now you’re trying to break down my debate style and tell me what I believe or something regarding the parties. If you disagree with this assessment, tell me how and why.


budtoast t1_je07ofx wrote

I’m not turning you into a villain- this isn’t even about you. This entire reply is so ironic: you are telling me what I’M doing now. But what I’m really trying to do is point out a truth- that people on both sides openly talk about these things. And the easier ones to convince are republicans. Neither are good, but one is being targeted by extremists right now especially. Why do you think all these rice bag opinions align with conservative talking points?

Also your description of my words being demonization of conservatives only is ironic alongside all these accusations of fallacies- I’ve said time and time again both sides are authoritarian. Both sides can be more libertarian. I also never once generalized all conservatives or said that they WERE N-zis, but you’re claiming I did (“evidenced by your claims that ‘they all agreed’ with the evil that was the Nazis”). My point is that YOU should not be here trying to defend conservative opinion when these rice bags in the posts are preying on conservative ideology. If you disagree, explain why. You’re the one telling people to listen to conservatives and hear them out.

Essentially, I have always said don’t listen to the parties. You were first to suggest listening to conservatives

You keep repeating your point without addressing any of mine. I keep addressing your repeats and it is becoming tiring. I don’t want to be accused of another fallacy after this, no one cares because this is a reddit comment section and I never wanted to professionally debate you. I wanted to share my perspective like you suggested people should do (and you suggested people should listen.) But I suppose it’s only certain people and certain opinions?

Please reply to the bolded part of this message specifically if you’re going to reply.


budtoast t1_je03351 wrote

I am talking about the “smelly” people OP is talking about, not people smoking in public. I agree that smoking in a public place shouldn’t happen for either substance. That’s why I began this with “I agree with your sentiment.”

What I disagree with is labeling anyone who smells like weed “addicts.” Also if you’re judging how people smell, you’re going to find lots of different things to be bothered by. Many people don’t smell great and that’s ok, we do our best.


budtoast t1_jdzmi4g wrote

Hey I can agree with some of your sentiments, but some of us consume for medical health issues or chronic pain. I have considered stopping but my other option is prescribed benzos or narcotics. I heavily prefer marijuana.

This could also be the case for these “smelly” people. Even making your own edibles (aka not explicitly smoking) from dispo flower can make your entire house smell. You don’t really get a choice unless you have a lot of money to afford premade edibles.

To be honest, this mentality that “if I smell it you’re an addict” is what kept me away from it for so long. It has helped me tremendously. I wish more people knew that others might need it for health reasons or for pain relief and you can’t really avoid the smell if you’re poor.


budtoast t1_jdy50v9 wrote

That’s my entire point as well. But you’re the one here trying to deny the reality that conservatives do in fact say authoritarian things. I’m trying to say both parties are harmful. You’re essentially saying “it depends.” Also these packets openly associate themselves with conservative beliefs- all of the packets are sentiments that are shared with conservatives.

If you want to consider this a debate you can, but I am simply here to explain my perspective as you said we should do for one another. I didn’t create or knock down any strawmen. Ironically, we could say you’ve been creating strawmen as well if we really want to. You mention me talking about “they” and I’m talking about everyone. Anyone on all sides wants to push for this. There are authoritarians everywhere, regardless of party. YOU are applying beliefs to ME. Neither of us are affiliated with any party.

It takes a bag of rice like this to begin that decent. It is easier if the opinions of the person you’re targeting already mostly align with the opinions you’re pushing. These bags are anti-immigration, anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, etc. The left is not any of those things, but the right is. My end point is that it is easier to radicalize those who already hold similar beliefs. A pro life person will be more likely to pick up an “everything about abortion is jewish” packet compared to a pro choice person.


budtoast t1_jdx77bu wrote

I’m not debating you. I’m sharing my perspective because that’s what you talked about- listening to other’s perspectives. The N-zis and the Holocaust are two different things. I think you’re struggling to understand the point…

The point is: They don’t think it’s a bad idea. Some people on the left believe authoritarian things are a “good idea”, and some people on the right believe this as well. I can show you examples. The parties are kind of useless. So yeah- there is no “other side” solution from your perspective.

I’m for the concepts of social freedom and basic human rights. I’m against the push for control over people’s rights. Other parts of politics (regarding economics specifically) are varied and do not always align with one party in my opinion. Ultimately, my point is that your defense of this party is not one you want to be affiliated with if you are against this rice propaganda.


budtoast t1_jdwmy5n wrote

Not the holocaust- I’m talking about N-zis. >! I grew up conservative. Last month I visited my parents. My dad tried to claim, yet again, during a conversation about politics that the N-zis did good for Germany, despite the horrors of the Holocaust. He believes their authoritarian ways of life were better. They had a “better culture and better sentiments.” But he always says that the Holocaust shouldn’t have happened, and so the genocide should have never happened.!<

You can, at the very least, identify the fact that the right does agree with these values. In both the “culture war” and their politics, they will show how they do not support change or social acceptance. They reject it outright and openly wish to go back in time culturally. They speak about this openly very often. Everything you said after your second sentence I am trying to ask you.

I don’t know your political affiliation. I am apolitical- but I have been a lot of things. Right now, the internet and the world of politics is a nightmare. Lies can become obvious with a bit of digging but most people just enjoy finding things that reassure them of their already held beliefs. I have personal experiences in my life that have led me to what I believe. I have seen people be honest and upfront with what they think. I know what the core beliefs of conservatism is, so I am not that. I’m not a liberal, either. I don’t need to listen to something I once shouted.

TLDR: You can be against the left. But if you think conservatives are against authoritarian ideals enough to try and defend them here, you’re just factually wrong (hence “if you’re not more center after that, you didn’t listen” from my first comment to you)


budtoast t1_jdwc86a wrote

This wouldn’t be a problem if people who are on the right didn’t literally try to defend actions done during the Holocaust. If you hang around them long enough, you’ll hear what I’m talking about. >!Saying things like N-zis did good things for Germany, etc.!<

I’d be defending them or maybe even on their side had they not signaled these beliefs more and more as I got older.

Noticed the sarcasm though. I don’t care


budtoast t1_jdw8ezu wrote

I used to BE someone who disagrees with me, let alone listen to them. I have to listen to them every day (they’re my entire family)

I would repeat harmful lies about the Holocaust without knowing they were lies. It’s just what my parents told me

If you agree with those who disagree with me now, I’m nervous for your future. You’ve had ample time to listen to those on the left and hear their perspectives. If you’re not more center after that, I’m afraid you didn’t listen.


budtoast t1_jdv56mp wrote

You’re totally right. We couldn’t find that specific item anywhere else, but we swore to never go back there because it was so uncomfortable and overpriced lol. Plus they no longer do that 40% off deal thing. (it was the ONLY art store where I used to live so I used that coupon all the time)


budtoast t1_jdv4n6z wrote

Thank you. I’ll take that deal but I can’t guarantee things will work out. I’m hoping to go outside more often during the summer so I suspect that will potentially bring problems with it. The worst we’ve experienced here was HEAVYY staring in Hobby Lobby and people obviously whispering about us. So I’ll take that any day over outright violence.


budtoast t1_jdv3ts4 wrote

I know that. I think there are things you shouldn’t baselessly worry about, and there are things that make sense. Considering I have experienced violence for my appearance and my girlfriend’s appearance before in a town not far from here, we are a bit cautious. I mean, the guy who hurt us had a sw-stika tattoo.

If it has happened before it can absolutely happen again. Once I started having issues with my health again and we moved here we haven’t seen too many scary things. We’ve heard of some people getting shot or violence outside of places like Martha’s. But beyond that, we’re just hoping that this town is an improvement from where we used to live. If we get attacked again, I may not be able to move like last time, and I could get hurt badly.

Essentially, I am not fear mongered. I’m afraid of those who are


budtoast t1_jdv2uz6 wrote

I think the issue is the anti trans bills being pushed by Missouri. That is no reason to call someone a transphobe if that’s what you were called. Unless you intentionally misgendered someone or expressed distaste or hatred towards trans people.

Missouri is a fine place to live. I’ve seen worse places. But it also isn’t even on the top 20 states for trans people to live right now. We could go to any number of those and it would be better but we can’t afford that. We are stuck here. Where we can find a large amount of political rice bags on the street. I don’t think it is good or bad. Could be worse, could be better.

Edit: Also I’m not afraid because of fear mongering, though I do sometimes wish that were the case. No, the fear mongering is happening through the people calling trans people and drag queens predators. I’m afraid because of bills being pushed that want to limit my freedoms, not because of claims that an entire group of people are hurting children. I have been physically attacked because of these beliefs. My fears are reasonable.


budtoast t1_jdryqx3 wrote

That’s a shame, people outside of the internet seem to have more concerning opinions than on the internet. Usually this stuff is less overt, but it is out there and I’ve heard people talk about it. Never spread direct propaganda on paper tho, so that’s why I ask about this town.

Also someone who actually attacked me once before had a N-zi tattoo, so this type of thing is a bit hard to see when I moved away to be safer.


budtoast t1_jdrksd8 wrote

Oh yeah- also I should say they’re not directly correlated all the time. I believe family values and some Catholic beliefs are good, so my personal bias is just what it is. But it does exist is my point and there are methods for spreading really harmful or scary beliefs. I’m sorry you sympathize. I hope you’re doing better today and I’m glad you made it out.


budtoast t1_jdrffpu wrote

The ways THIS is being implemented yeah- I have known some people with straight up N-zi sentiments who wouldn’t pick this up because it’s “egregious.” It has the “vibes” of something created in a mental crisis.

The people who are really dangerous are the ones who don’t openly say these opinions and don’t type them up to post around town. They do like to spread these ideas anonymously and through their familial ties, but this makes you seem crazy. If you were to make bags of rice spreading any political opinion people will suspect that opinion is crazy. But they’re trying to do their part for their beliefs I guess… ugh.

This is another level of something I’ve seen plenty of times here in the rural Midwest. This is just the most OPEN I’ve ever witnessed out of anywhere I’ve ever lived. Springfield is better than where I’ve lived before, but it is only located a few hours away. And a lot of people I knew there had really harmful ideas. Hopefully people here will be able to recognize when harmful ideas are being pushed on them


budtoast t1_jdr9gyj wrote

For me personally… I grew up in a really conservative household… I know firsthand that these kinds of ideas sneak in right under your nose. >!I used to believe that the Holocaust was bad but the N-zis did a lot for Germany to help them.!< This is something my dad repeats regularly and he had convinced me of. I now know that’s not true, but the fact that these ideas can sort of exist and silently spread freaks me out.

I didn’t know it was spreading on me for years until people told me. As far as I know, my family and the others I knew at my Catholic private school were considered normal in the community. People didn’t treat them any different, but they also didn’t always openly say these things.

Edit: Anyways, that’s how they expect the ideas to spread. Those types of communities and people hiding what they believe and only openly saying it like this- anonymously

Edit 2: Also people don’t usually like to discuss politics. You’d never know, unless you brought it up, that your friend believes objectively wrong things


budtoast t1_jdr0r2j wrote

Oh yeah I know that, I’m more asking if I should be cautious of them. My girlfriend is trans and I recently heard someone say “all trans people are jews” and I’ve been hearing the “trans people are groomers” narrative and I just don’t know if these types of people will try to target someone who’s trans who just happens to be in town.

Maybe I’m overreacting, but it does worry me a little. I don’t leave because I have chronic illness, but whenever I do leave, if something were to happen I couldn’t physically do much to help the situation. And we have been in danger before but in another town so that’s why we’re so cautious.

Thanks for these reassuring words. I’m concerned that these ideas are spreading to normal people who otherwise wouldn’t be convinced by them had the internet not pushed these mentalities everywhere


budtoast t1_jdqz41v wrote

I don’t go outside a lot. Are there lots of people here like this? Should I be worried about them?

I ask because I have never once in my life seen something like this. But again, I don’t go outside a lot so maybe it’s not as big of a deal as it looks like…

Edit- I should say that I have been outside before. Since moving here, which was a year ago, I have not left the house much due to chronic illness and I am not super familiar with this town