> How far would they have to go to do their cookouts if cars were banned?

If you banned cars from the Ohio loop and forced them to park on Buckeye, a mile and a half. From the golf lot, about a mile. It's not a short loop. That is a very long way to walk lugging heavy coolers and whatnot.

> Virtually every thing I need to do or want to do is on a bicycle.

And you think that that even remotely applies or should apply to everybody, you are monumentally delusional and self centered. Not everybody lives like you or is interested in the things you're interested in. Some of them are interested in things you're not interested in, like big family barbecues in a park, moving items over 30 pounds for more than 100 feet, or having access to park space while being disabled. I get that this proposal would benefit you. I don't fucking care. It would hurt a lot of people who aren't you. Each of them has equal right to use the park.

All I'm saying is that you need to realize that a public space like Hanes Point has a variety of users with a variety of needs. Banning cars would force out a huge number of users. It's a disgustingly exclusionary proposal that only somebody who flat out resented the existence of people in any way different from them could make. So, your average capital C Cyclist, I suppose.

> Say that to the people who refuse to drive their motor vehicles in a responsible way. Why is that so hard to do?

I do do that. But at Hanes Point, I've flat out never seen somebody driving dangerously. People I've seen there drive slowly and cautiously and then park and go about what they're doing in the park. Obviously it happens, but most drivers behave themselves.

And drivers can't share in a responsible way if they're banned. You realize this thread is about a moron talking about banning cars entirely, not sharing, right?

> Presumably the place where people are speeding the most is where it's most dangerous.

This is so stupid I don't know what to say.

No, speeding in an area where traffic flows smoothly and evenly and where no pedestrians or bikers are ever present is not more dangerous than speeding in a school zone where kids are walking home. Yet far, far more people will exceed the limit dramatically on the highway, especially when limits are set artificially low.

Speed is not in itself dangerous. Speed differential is. The most dangerous situations are where you have things moving fast next to things moving slow. Things moving fast next to things moving fast is actually quite safe.

You do realize you can buy working cars for just $2000 or so, right?

Three months at the very beginning of covid when they shut down the entire tidal basin area to nearly everyone, not 'much of the entire covid lockdown'. In comparison to all of covid, that shutdown was incredibly brief. I spent quite a lot of the summer and fall of 2020 sitting out there when I had a badly sprained ankle and needed nice outdoor settings I could easily drive to. There was never a closure like Beach Drive to encourage more recreational use, the only closure was intended to (and did) shut down nearly all use.

Define perimeter of the park. Because the way I see it, that's exactly how it's configured now. A road around the perimeter with small lots and curb parking.

Do you mean parking on Buckeye Dr, a mile and a half away from the main picnic area, a mile and a half for people to drag their grills, coolers and large tents?

Face it bro, banning cars in the park is stupid and racially discriminatory. Stop digging. The only thing banning cars does is help cyclists. It hurts all other users.

The pedestrians arrive in cars. So no, they wouldn't.

Hanes Point is an isolated location that is pretty much entirely inaccessible without some sort of personal vehicle. If you ban cars, you are forcing everybody who is not willing or able to bike there out, aka everyone who doesn't use the park exactly like you do. It's not all about you. Learn to fucking share.

You're making a post hoc excuse for it. None of the current protocols were introduced after the insurrection, they were all instituted prior to it for COVID, and have been gradually loosened.

I raise it because this is one of those "structural racism" things the kids talk about.

Yes, the cyclists are a pretty racially diverse group. It's great. But it's a far whiter crowd than the picnickers, who are nearly 100% minority, so forcing the picnickers out would have a disproportionately harmful impact on minority groups.

And while bikes are on average cheaper than cars, the car is a necessary tool for most people, while every bike I see down there is ridden for fun, not for practical transportation. They're $5000+ toys. It's also worth noting that housing close enough to the core to bike to everything is far, far more expensive than the difference between car ownership or not. Recreational cyclists, especially the captial C Cyclists, are a wealthy bunch, no two ways about it.

The fact that you need this stuff explained to you is pretty disturbing, TBH. Did you crash without a helmet one too many times?

It's truly staggering.

The fundamental problem is that you cannot get rid of cars without forcing out a huge portion of the park's users who use it for things you need a car to use it for. And that group of users is poorer and blacker than the race bike crowd, by a lot.

Shockingly, the NPS has to balance the needs of different groups of park users in ways that best serve the needs of all users, not just one group of them. You want the park to only serve people like you, which is why you are a selfish and somewhat racist git.

Groups can get in with an escort, and offices are happy to send an intern. But it's still not open for people to just walk in like it used to be.

>if a handful of drivers speed around the point it could really be solved with enforcement.

Or speedbumps.

> It was blocked to cars through much of the COVID lockdown

...And that one is just a flat out lie.

I'm 100% in favor of the bike lane. It makes things safer for everybody. I was responding to the proposal to ban cars- which would very effectively force out a large base of black and hispanic park users who drive there for large picnics.

Different people use the parks in different ways. That's great, and should be celebrated and protected. But the bikers are the whitest and wealthiest group apart from the golf crowd, and the picnic crowd is the poorest and blackest. If you ban cars, you're effectively forcing the picnickers out of the park. And you don't see how that's problematic?

I'm not saying only white people would be allowed. I'm just saying that your proposal would force at least half of the park's users out to benefit a far wealthier, whiter, and more privileged group of users.

But that's okay with you, because black people use the park in ways that are different than the ways you use the park, so you think they don't matter.

Okay, so are the families that have been having summer picnics for generations supposed to walk their tents and grills down from the nearest metro stop about 2 miles away? Banning cars from an area that can't easily be reached without one (even a large percentage of bikers drive there) is, in fact, a proposal for exclusive or near exclusive bike use.

You're a selfish git and it shows.

They're still quite stupidly under COVID restrictions.

Have you noticed how many black families drive down there for massive family cookouts in the summer? You gonna haul all those tents and grills down on a bike? You wanna compare the number and demographics of the people having picnics down there with the number and demographics of the people in your pack of bikes?

The world is not a playground just for you and your bike. Grow the fuck up.

There are also the ones that have flat out fallen into the water.

I don't have to cross it all that regularly, fortunately.

Great news. It's always nuts when you drive in to park down there with the pedestrians and bikers all choosing to use different lanes. Even if you're trying to go slow and be safe, it's tricky. Glad they're finally just giving everybody their assigned lanes to avoid confusion.

Next up, repair the goddamn sidewalks so that pedestrians aren't forced onto the road and can stroll by the waterside.

The only people charged were the grunts. None of the leaders.

Shoot them first!

Half? At the one on Benning by my house, it's much closer to 100%. It's rare that anyone stops and I usually just wait for traffic to clear because the shitty light cycle at Benning and East Cap guarantees a regular gap in traffic.