Differentiate between having a reputation of being x and is x? The two are very comparable and a more accurate way of phrasing would have been that the Guardian has published a few articles that have been deemed transphobic.

Your example of the Christian baker was silly. As to Bell, perhaps you are right but what type of person stays at a clinic for twenty-years whose practice he fundamentally disagrees with and then decided to launch a report at the end lf those twenty-years? Also, what is so wrong about requesting a report? Surely lack of nuance here is noting that the Trust did not want such report to be made at all which far more suspicious than Bell requesting one.

Sidenote: Bell is a psychiatrist and a psychoanalyst

The fact that autism is more prevalent in gender dysphoria than cis-gender people is still warrants the question of why that phenomena is the case and to go back to the point you made previously, it’s not about ableism, it’s about properly assessing each INDIVIDUAL, and not a mean, to see if that child is indeed experiencing genuine gender dysphoria before being administered hormonal treatment.

I honestly do not understand why there is retaliation to the idea of being thorough with each patient and ruling out all possible factors before allowing treatment. It’s seems like common sense but somehow lacks nuance.

Why should it cause more harm if they are with an environment where people affirm their gender? Why do we push the narrative to be your preferred gender then you need xyz. If gender is fluid and doesn’t pertain to genitalia then why is it so essential to have hormonal treatment or operation? You cannot have the cake and eat it to. The answer to this is to of course address the dysphoria, to allow them to express their preferred gender, to have their environment and those around them to affirm their preferred gender and take much less hands on approach until they become an adult. A child can note vote at 16 yet we somehow allow them to make a life changing decision? We either deem children responsible at such an age or we do not.

Your original comment was in reply to another that says ‘all children were administered testosterone blockers’ and then was followed by other comments stating that no child was given blockers, which may be an honest mistake on my part in that you were replying to the ‘all children’ part of that statement.

You have cited four articles out of many, many pages of pro-trans articles on their website. Hardly enough to describe a the most progressive newspaper transphobic. In fact, it’s quite ridiculous.

Your example is silly. We’re talking about health practitioners who have chosen to purposefully work in a gender dysphoria clinic who are concerned about the methods and practice of the institution applied to children. Is honestly fair to say their concern is out of ideology or malice?

There is no falling into ableism because that isn’t the point. The point is that majority of the patients were young girls who had signs of autism. Now the question MUST be asked, what is the connection with young girls with autism who claim they have gender dysphoria? You cannot ignore that correlation.

A small percent yes however that small percent may never be able to recover back the functions of their birth gender like being able to have a child. Should we really be practising a utilitarian approach to this or should we should try to reduce as much harm as possible? In case of the latter is it not sensible and more consensual and informed to allow these children to make their own decision once they become a consenting adult? This of course does not mean we do affirm the gender they identify but rather halt all life-changing drugs and treatment until they can make a decision as an adult. Many of those who detransition, if you watch their testimonial, blame the adults in their life for pushing them to take these treatments and we simply should allow these children to have face the horror that they will never recover just because we favour the majority.

Again, the majority does mean that the consensus is right nor truthful and we do not know if those staff were scared to loose their job considering the backlash Bell received.

I personally buy Bell having a political ideology against the clinic considering he’s worked there for 20 years and as I said has everything to loose. His main concern was that the clinic became less about care and more about handing treatment to those who came in without proper and thorough evaluation.

thanks

What is sound healthcare for trans youth then?

There is nothing strange about the comment. It’s in a response to yours and another’s stating that children weren’t given testosterone which they were. Secondly, the point was also made that no mainstream media could be trusted, which I agree wholeheartedly on the most part but even a progressive and inclusive newspaper reported on the topic and hosted Bell.

The Guardian is the most progressive newspaper in the UK and are very inclusive of trans people and rights. This is household knowledge.

Why would a senior consultant choose to make a report which loose him his job? He had nothing to gain and everything to loose.

Thirdly, if psychoanalysis is should not be used to assess the mental status of patient then what over method should be used? Firstly, he raised concerns of that other staff confided in him and secondly he says that a majority of the children coming in had autism, depression etc and that those should be explored first before prescribing hormonal treatment that can change someone’s life forever. If you have ever seen the accounts of young of those who have detransitioned it’s just as tragic to hear the accounts of those who are transitioning and facing all kinds of problems. I find it strange to discredit this viewpoint when it seeks to do the least amount of harm as possible.

He has also worked at the clinic for over 20 years as a senior consultant. If he was out of date then why was he in such a high position of judgement and why did staff feel they could confide in him for his expertise?

We have to also remember that the clinic is a private clinic contracted by the NHS. Before their contract they had 80 cases a year and then increased to over a thousand which increased their income.You can understand why the heads of the Trust were so concerned with Dr Bell launching a investigation and why they were so eager to shut Bell down. At the end of the day, their are institution out to make money, and to discredit their practice would potentially loose them that money.

Yes I have no doubt there are various publications presenting the closure of the Tavistock clinic as a means to promote anti-trans idealogy however the point in question, from what I understand is where the closure of Tavistock just and whether it’s practice was sound.

It’s a tragedy that Trans kids face these waiting lists but so is every other sector, including those with cancer, so it’s fundamentally how poor the NHS is being run that is the main problem.

The issue isn’t with Trans rights, it’s about private clinic contracted by the NHS handed out hormone treatment to children without thorough examination from the view of a senior consultant whose heads of Trust tried to silence. If there practice was so morally sound they would have allowed transparency in the report and wouldn’t have tried to shut him down.

This about consent of the child, not being pushed by doctors bankrolled by a public sector contract or pushy parents and be careful and being sure.

The somehow idea that this is against trans rights lack nuance. It isn’t a case of denying treatment, it’s about being damn sure that there isn’t any other underlying mental health issues that maybe spurring the dysphoria like autism, depression or other such things.

>Among these concerns were the fact that children attending GIDS often seemed to be rehearsed and sometimes did not share their parents’ sense of urgency; that senior staff spoke of “straightforward cases” in terms of children who were to be put on puberty blockers (no case of gender dysphoria, notes Bell, can be said to be straightforward); that some were recommended for treatment after just two appointments and seen only infrequently thereafter; some felt that GIDS employed too many inexperienced (and inexpensive) psychologists; that clinicians who’d spoken of homophobia in the unit were told they had “personal issues”. One told Bell that a child as young as eight had been referred to an endocrinologist for treatment. “I could not go on like this… I could not live with myself given the poor treatment the children were obtaining,” said another.

This is from Dr Bell, one of the senior consultants at Tavistock in an Guardian interview

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/02/tavistock-trust-whistleblower-david-bell-transgender-children-gids

Even The Guardian?

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/02/tavistock-trust-whistleblower-david-bell-transgender-children-gids

Cool

I mean, even the fathers of Quantum Mechanics linked Vedanta philosophy with QM