grapehelium t1_jdujod7 wrote

I'll believe it when it happens. Netanyahu has made plenty of coalition promises in the past, and then when the time came to implement them he was unwilling/unable to. He did this often enough that a lot of politicians would not trust him, and that led to the last round of 4-5 elections Israel experienced.

Even if he stops the legislation now, he could also just start it up again in a few months. So is this a pause, or a cancellation, and even if it is a cancellation, can he be trusted?


grapehelium t1_jabi1rj wrote

It is significant in that the US is responsible for its' citizens welfare, i.e. for Americans. If an American is murdered, the US should do all that it can to bring the murderer to justice.

The US has insisted on this for Abu-Akleh , but seems to not care if Jewish Americans are killed by Palestinians. The assumption being that either Israel will take care of it, or that the US doesn't expect much from the PA to be able/willing to punish the murderer.


grapehelium t1_ja46ykh wrote

can you please give examples showing how israel supposedly regularly targets civilians? I.e. civilans killed for simply existing, not in proximity to a firefight.

I am not denying that there have been civilian deaths on the palestinian side, I am denying that Israel has a policy of targeting civilians for no reason other than to kill a palestinian.

The point is, There are palestinian groups that exist to kill jews. including civilians. Including kids in beds. including people having a drink at a pub - just regular civilians, not soldiers involved in a firefight.


grapehelium t1_j6ltp94 wrote

I think there is more to it than just anti-Israel.

any event, or any issue, is regularly hijacked by the Palestinians and their supporters.

They are like a petulant little child that wants attention.


Look at me, I'm right here.

Look at me!


LOOK. AT. ME. NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, now Gimme. (baby talk for "give to me")


grapehelium t1_j6lsl52 wrote

If you really want to play a numbers game, start with the truth.

There were not even 300 Palestinians killed in 2022. so certainly less than 1 a day.


(and even once you get the real number, how many of those were active combatants, or killed because of their immediate proximity to active combatants? The vast majority of Israelis killed by palestinians were not only not active combatants, they were civilians just doing day to day stuff nowhere near a firefight)

and neither does Israel just walk around picking up palestinian kids to torture. Of course someone involved in a terrorist activity, or endangering the lives of others, by throwing rocks at cars for example, should be detained. The torture thing is just another accusation thrown around without any basis or proof. Just like the accusation that Israel loves to do this. Israel wants all these terrorists, and their kids that have been raised to hate to just leave Israel alone.

(now after having written all of this, I hope you were just sincerely uneducated, and have now learnt something, and I haven't wasted my time with a troll.)


grapehelium t1_j6jvwze wrote

I am not sure the PA/PLO is able to make any compromises. None of their leaders can accept a deal that gives them any less than arafat rejected.

In addition the Palestinians have consistently refused numerous offers of a state. As far as I can tell, they Palestinians have never compromised on any of their demands.

I expect they will get a state eventually, but it will be so long until they agree, it will be a fragment of what they could have had.

And then there is the other issue, that they have been unwilling to agree to the Israeli requirement that any agreement be the end of all claims. i.e The Palestinians cannot come back 10 years after a signed agreement and say they also want A,B,C. This is a major problem for them, as many Palestinians see an agreement with Israel as just a first step in reclaiming all of Palestine. As they regularly say - From the river (i.e. Jordan River) to the sea (i.e. mediterranean sea) Palestine will be free. i.e. no more Israel.

(not to mention that Hamas and the PA can't agree on very much, and that Even if Israel were willing to meet all the demands of the PA, Abbas isn't really a legitimate leader, being in the 19th year of his 4 year presidential term....)


grapehelium t1_j23c3jz wrote

(cheek in tongue)

well, when the opposition to the right wing party is called "labor", I don't think the newly minted Russian Israelis cared what labors positions were. They would vote anything but labor

now a bit more seriously.....

this is also about the time of the Oslo accords which saw regular, horrific terrorist attacks against Israel. With no peace on the horizon, Israelis grew disillusioned with the idea that the palestinians wanted to have peaceful relations.


grapehelium t1_j17ljhz wrote

It is NOT my intention to disrespect you, or your choices, or feelings. And so I ask the next questions honestly,

how are you in danger? i.e. What is the next government planning that endangers you?

I understand that the incoming government may not be as supportive of your choices, but how much will they actually change that affects you, and how much of what they change will put you in actual danger, and what sort of danger? (I have heard similar comments, but no specifics/details, and have not yet had the opportunity to ask someone who identifies as part of this group)


grapehelium t1_j17kzdh wrote

So, I am not sure about the sex of cabinet personnel, and I will not relate to that issue, except to say that the religious parties do not include women (mistakenly in my opinion), and so their inclusion in the government will already skew things to the male side. (I also do NOT agree with giving someone a position just because they are a woman, Arab, white, etc... Positions should be filled based on qualifications, not physical/genetic characteristics). Also keep in mind, that it is the party members that determine who will represent their party in the knesset, not the general public. In Israel you vote for a party, likud, meretz, shas, etc.... NOT an individual. So if Joe Israeli likes likud's position on A,B,C issues, he votes for them, but he has no say (assuming he is not a likud member) in how many women likud has on their list, or their position on the list. So the problem of the amount of women is more a function of the party members, than the voting public.

I do think Bibi does what is good for Bibi, and in this situation, he needs people that will help him overcome his legal issues. It so happens, that those people are his normal go-to parties to form a government.

About the same number of Israelis voted for left leaning or right leaning parties as the last few rounds of elections. However due to the Israeli political math, There is a minimun percentage of total valid votes a party must receive. In the distribution of the votes some parties do better than others, but those that do not meet the thresshold are not allocated seats in the knesset. Those votes are then not counted. This resulted in what looks like an overwhelming win for the Right - which while true politically, is not as true mathematically. (Other countries are similarly confounded by their systems, for example, in Canada, Trudea is the elected prime minister, although I believe most people voted for his opponent, i.e. he lost the popular vote, but due to the way districts are drawn, his party won enough votes to win the election.)

If Israelis feel that this government is not good for them, not functional, doesn't represent their values, whatever, there are always elections in another few years. That is part of the beauty of a democratic system. There is always an opportunity to vote in someone else. (or even to get involved and make a more personal difference)