If you prefer to box it rather than use a stand, you can get a cheap instrument suitcase - they have foam lining that you can roughly cut to fit.

Fate: "I heard that" 😆

Those ear-cups look like sad, deflated balloons! Very second-hand. I feel sorry for the shop owner.

It's popular for DAC/amps to be stacked on top of each other, but I'd suggest getting some little shelves. For my headphone system I am using instrument cases (usually used for scientific equipment) to give each item of equipment room to breathe.

New audiophile here. I the last few weeks I tried a bunch of Sennheisers, Grados, Hifimans, Focals, and was most impressed with Audeze - of the latter I tried LCD-2C and LCD-X (both ex-demo). I grabbed the X in the end, and honestly I am thrilled with them. I can see me sticking with them for some years - while they aren't the lightest set of cans, I still find them comfortable.

I am too busy geeking out on a equipment and music server build to worry whether I should swap my new purchase! But I would be happy to be educated on IEMs - I noted in this channel recently that I've never considered them, as I would imagine they could not produce much bass, soundstage, or "presence". Indeed, I wonder if I might get some inexpensive ones to (try to) replace my ageing Bowers & Wilkins closed-backs - sadly they feel a bit flat now my ears are getting nicer treatment in the house.

£1,499 for the new one, and £1,079 reduced to £950 for the ex-demo one.

I assume the £1.5k unit matches the one on the official site costing £1,699 (and thus it is cheaper than RRP). I agree that the case and extra cables shouldn't cost that much, but perhaps Audeze doesn't agree 😲

> The whole thing is a lot of fun to listen to.

Ooh, this is whetting my appetite 😌

> Just make sure to get the 2021 version or later if you decide to go with an X

I'll ask about the release year, but since this is ex-demo, it could go either way - either pre or post 2021. The ex-demo unit sits at around £1.1k before open-box discount, but they have a brand new one at £1.5k - which might point to the cheaper one being the older model.

While I won't buy if I have any doubts about the sound, I suspect I won't be able to exercise much patience based on tuning 😺. But, who knows, I might prefer the Focal!

Right, update! I have a demo with Shop Three, and they seem genuinely nice people. They have an LCD-X and a Clear Mg to show off, both ex-demo, and if the LCD-2C is anything to go by, I suspect I might just buy the X there and then. I've done enough messing around now. I just need to check that the warranty is still valid.

It turns out that ADI2s are hard to come by currently, but I think I can see one or two official UK dealers with a small amount of stock...

CanJam sounds great, and I am sure I'd have a lot of fun there. I'd go to talk shop though, since I hope that by the time that rolls around, I will have installed my dream stack, and it won't need adjusting for some years 😼

Fascinating details, thank you.

> Unfortunately, this hobby is filled with snake oil. There are a cadre of companies and people who claim that there is a difference in sound...

I had been pondering about this, particularly since reading the rather harsh replies to the Stellar DAC measurements/review on ASR. I know the internet is ripe for giving people a kicking, but there some folks were suggesting that PS Audio is a deliberate scam and/or the grandfatherly image of Paul's channel on YouTube is a cynical marketing ploy to cover up products they know are inferior. I suppose I take the view that bold claims must be accompanied by bold evidence - in other words I don't like to attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by cock-up.

On the other hand, I'd like to see audio companies being willing to 'fess up when they make a boo-boo. The measurements of the Stellar were something they should have picked up themselves, but I would doubt they would have noticed that in the pre-production model and decided to ignore it. It's a rhetorical question to be sure, but how did distortion that bad end up in such a high-end product?

> And if I had 2950$ laying around, I kid you not, I would just buy a Utopia and plug that right into my 9$ Apple Lightning Dongle

I've done some digging around on the RME ADI2 FS - thanks for the steer. If I pair this with the Audeze LCD-2Cs, I'm looking at around £2K. I suppose I have the budget for the Utopia, but that leaves nothing for a DAC (though I do take onboard what you say about needing only a cheap one). My main worry about the Utopia is that I've not tried them, and demos have been such an unsatisfying affair so far (either in terms of rudeness or the sense of purchase obligation) that I am not sure how many more I can take. That said, I have discovered one very close to me, so I might do one last push before I tell all the "real stores" they've been replaced by the (much less exhausting) internet!

Thanks StarWarder - my search-fu clearly isn't very good! 🙈 I did some research on the PS Audio Stellar, and didn't come across anything as useful. For example, I found this to be fully convincing as endorsement of this product. Here is another one, oh dear! Lesson learned here - I need to be more cautious.

I wonder if I might end up testing the patience of Sluggish Shop One - they are unlikely to stock the DAC/amps in that chart. I might see if I can give them the Audeze business and then just buy the rest of the stuff from the web. So much for my wanting to use bricks 'n mortar stores! 😬

For what it's worth, I wonder if my faith in shop demos is now rather dented, only a few weeks into my project. My audiophile ears are nothing if not unpractised, and could end up buying a cans/amp stack that spends too much money or leaves too much performance on the table. This stuff, it turns out, is rather harder than it looks.

Readers may wish to see comments on a duplicate before contributing:

• https://www.reddit.com/r/iems/comments/11ccgig/ampdac/

What kind of budget would you have for a amp/DAC?

> I have to reiterate my opinion on amps/DACs which is that, to date, nobody I’m aware of has ever been able to tell the difference between two well measuring solid state chains in a blind test.

Yeah, this is a good point. Well, I have gone back to Sluggish Shop One and asked them, firstly, if they want to supply the Audeze cans (they don't normally stock them). We'll see on that point. I think these would come in at around £750.

Secondly, I've said I am happy for them to supply the DAC/amp. Once the Audeze have arrived, I'll try them on the Audiolab M-DAC+, which I thought was offered at a fair price-point of £650. I know they have this on demo. This was the system that Ball Scratcher was rude about - while I personally liked it, I am thinking about alternatives.

I see this supplier also has a PS Audio Stellar DAC. This is also a general-purpose DAC/pre-amp, rather than a dedicated HP amplifier, and although it looks lush, it comes in at nearly three times the price - £1800. But it has some excellent reviews. I don't know if they have this as a demo unit, but moreover I wonder if this would start to violate your rule - is it too pricey for my purposes?

(I confess I rather admire Paul's work on YouTube, and so would be given to believe that this amp is a nice bit of kit - but I have not heard it at all).

> told me ... how much he dislikes the [headphone] that I have.

I just don't understand why a salesperson would do that. Sometimes the art of selling is knowing when not to speak!

Very interesting, thanks. I am but a neophyte, but I tried the referenced LCD-2Cs last week, and they are currently my favourite cans over a stack of Focal, Hifiman, and Sennheiser headphones (admittedly the DAC/amp was different for these tests, so it is not remotely scientific).

Since I am new to the sport, I wanted to check to see what other folks thought of this device, and Josh Valour (on YouTube) was ecstatic about them. Intriguing how people hear things so differently!

Gerald Ratner famously declared his company's jewellery products as "total crap", which prompted a consumer reaction that nearly brought the company to bankruptcy. It's a tough lesson, and perhaps one that Ball Scratcher could do with learning.

> Don't go [to a hi-fi store] with casual clothing, and try to speak in say a more fancy accent/dialect, usually they'll see you as coming from the upper class and treat you better

I doubt this would have worked - social attitudes in England are horrendously complicated. People putting on airs and graces to curry favour tend to be laughed at if the ruse is spotted, and even though the class system still limps on, the vast majority of British people value authenticity over artifice. Moreover, there is not a direct correlation between money and class here, even though they undoubtedly have feedback loops; people becoming immediately richer does not generally elevate them.

The class dynamics between me and Ball Scratcher make for intriguing speculation. He's probably wealthy, but his manners and attitude were rough as old boots. In class analysis terms, the seller would likely be regarded as "working class made good", and his vulgarity as "new money". I'm fairly gently-spoken, and my BBC English voice is sometimes described as "posh", but paradoxically I wonder if that caused additional resentment.

> As far as the headphones- LCD2 is great. Have you tried the LCDX yet?

I should clarify that it was the LCD-2 Classic (open back). I've just spotted that the LCD-2 is another headphone (and still available).

I've not tried the LCDX, but frankly I need some salesperson recovery time prior to my next boxing tournament! 🥊 😺

> especially if they dont carry the [Audiolab] product

They do, but only on their website. I challenged Sweaty Balls on that point, exceedingly gently, and he replied thusly (it helps if you voice the following with a mixture of anger and contempt):

> It's a shit DAC. It's not resolving. Only exceptional products are allowed in my store. I have it on my website for the likes of Richer Sounds customers.

> am I correct in summing up the experience as: > > * shop one has good products, but not the ones you like best > * shop two is run by a wanker

Yep, that's exactly it. I worried too that Shop One were excessively sluggish to deal with (I appreciate not every salesperson likes extended email conversations, but it was their idea). This made me wonder if I'd been written off as a time-waster.

> Perhaps you could ask shop one if they are able to order Audeze and Chord products for you?

I might do that, to be fair. I'd still like to buy from a bricks-and-mortar shop, and I'm not fussed about price-matching or chasing down the best deal.

> You are not obligated to listen to MQA files just because your DAC can decode them.

True, but I'd read enough about MQA Limited to decide I didn't want to give them my license money. (I'm keeping this response rather short so as not to derail the general direction of the thread - I appreciate MQA is a thorny topic).

> You could try other DACs that store one offers.

Possibly, though they have essentially refused up to this point. But I may explain that the Audeze cans were the best listen so far, and that I'd be looking for the best in-budget DAC/amp stack to drive them. The sneered-at Audiolab may indeed be fine - I wonder if I should just get Sluggish Store One to buy me the Audeze cans, and then I can restart my amp/DAC search (probably on the internet).

You'd be right that I could just get Sluggish Store One to put the same system together for me (including brands they don't normally stock) but I would be in danger of remembering Ball Scratcher's injurious snarl every time I put my cans on my head. 😆

> The owner [of Sweaty Store Two] sounds hilarious!

A real treat for masochists! 🙈

Ha ha - your post did make me giggle! Etiquette and civility probably are excessively valued in British culture, but I wonder if it is an ingrained expectation that I would struggle to psychologically escape from.

I did think about ignoring my dented pride and going cap-in-hand to Ball Scratcher, but it would take a lot of swallowing (the pride, not the balls).

🍒

Out of curiosity, would/have you used the Mojo 1 as a DAC only, and fed the output to a headphone amplifier? This configuration in the demonstration system seemed odd to me, as the Mojos (both 1 and 2) can drive headphones directly.

I assume the analogue amp I was presented with was just regarded as being able to drive the cans better than the integrated DAC/amp.

I found the Mojo 2 to be an oddity. I mean, it formed part of a system that is the best thing my ears have ever heard, so perhaps my criticisms are unimportant...

It was, to start off with, rather plasticky. I found the coloured LED buttons to be rather gaudy, and not at all becoming in a high-end piece of kit. It's too little and lightweight, and I wondered if it would float around the desk if attached to a stiff wire. It seemed odd that a battery-powered DAC would be recommended for a non-portable system, and then I find that the audio-in is USB C, but the recharge port is micro-USB.

Perhaps it would hinge on how long the battery lasts (and whether it can be replaced when it dies in a few years time)?

I am partly wondering whether I should just get the Audeze cans that I like, and challenge Sluggish Shop One to demo a better DAC/amp stack (they don't sell any Audeze stuff themselves, as far as I know).

100% agreed. I tend to be a cautious spender anyway, and once I have my cans/amp bought and installed, I expect I'll be too busy with rediscovering my record collection to bother about FOMO!

I can't find it presently, but I am reminded of a YouTube video by PS Audio, on the subject of: "are high-end hi-fi buffs actually psychopaths"? 😆