hedgetank t1_j9d0ggr wrote

And yet there are other studies that come to similar conclusions. The fact is that we can't say for sure because there's no way to accurately track the events objectively, and that means the situation can be skewed to make it look like the events are extremely rare (which gun control orgs do), or extremely common (which gun rights groups do).

The raw statistical probability just based on population, prevalence of guns, and general crime rates alone would put the figure somewhere in the middle, much higher than the low estimates used to suggest defensive use of firearms is extremely rare.

Until there's an objective way to measure a subjective event like this, the best we can do is to use self reported data, news reports (e.g. /r/dgu), and statistical analysis to come up with a rough estimate range of possible rates.

It neither proves nor disprove the study in question, but it does get more accurate than biased oversimplifications.


hedgetank t1_j9czdh0 wrote

I mean that if someone threatened me with a weapon for whatever reason, I drew my firearm in preparation to defend myself because I had no other choice, she the attacker decided to cut and run instead of risking it, why would I call the cops and invite all the hassle that dealing with American cops brings?

There's no suspect, there's little evidence, no shots fired, presumably no harm to me, and my choices are to call 911, try to convince them that something happened and to send cops, spend hours going over details, and end up nowhere; or I could simply collect my wits and get the hell out of there.

Hell, after I was attacked and nearly killed, the cops and the DA both said to me face that since there were no witnesses, and the area was rough, there was basically fuck-all they could do and zero chance they'd ever find the guy, and my home town is relatively small.

Studies and data from the FBI generally show, too, that many encounters of various kinds like I described above go unreported because people don't want to deal with the cops. More so if they're a minority.

So tell me again, how do you propose to track incidents where someone draws a gun in self defense, but things never get to a point where shots are fired and police aren't involved?


hedgetank t1_j9c3jd0 wrote

the thing about that is, with regards to someone "getting into a fight", there's so much gray area to it that the blanket statement of "they got in a fight" doesn't disqualify their right to use force in self defense. There are numerous scenarios in which a person may have gotten into a fight, or even started a fight, and still be within their rights to escalate/use greater force to defend themselves.

It's just not automatic/clear cut.

And in the case of "were doing a crime against someone", legally speaking, they would not be entitled to a claim of self defense if they were committing a crime, outside of very specific circumstances. To wit, if I were in the middle of burglarizing your home and I found you busy stabbing your wife to death, technically I would be within my rights to use force to stop you, despite my being in the middle of committing a crime, as I'm technically acting in defense of another.

So just throwing those out there like they somehow automatically disqualify either the entire survey or even the particular claims is deeply misleading and erroneous without all of the facts available to review.


hedgetank t1_j9c225x wrote

It's difficult to track because unless shots are fired or something actually happens, the police aren't called. If the police are called, it's after the event and the report won't really reflect much.

So, the only way to track these kinds of incidents is either going to be self-reporting, or some means of requiring a police report and requiring the report to reflect that the victim drew a firearm in preparation for self defense, but didn't require firing it.

You can imagine just how difficult it would be to get cops to do all that paperwork, considering how loathe they are to do it already.

This means that people who don't want to believe that it's even possible for whatever reason can blow off the statistic, because, like a lot of other things, if it's not reported, it obviously didn't happen, right?


hedgetank t1_j9c1ckz wrote

not so cool story, bro: Back when I was 22, I was working for an IT company that was setting up computers and such for a Boys and Girls Club in a very not so nice part of town.

I had been working late to wrap things up and get ready for pre-opening testing, and was in the process of hauling empty computer boxes out to my car when a group of 3 folks noticed me and decided they wanted to make some extra cash.

The three guys jumped me and started beating on me, then when they figured out the boxes were empty decided to have a little fun instead.

40 stab wounds and multiple deep lacerations later, including one that was only a couple of millimeters from spilling my guts (thank the gods I'm chunky), I was left to lay in a pool of my own blood.

It was another hour or so before someone passed by and bothered to call 911.

I ended up looking like Dr. Weir at the end of Event Horizon (though I still had my eyes).

No way for me to fight back at the time, and between infection, loss of blood, etc. I was lucky I didn't die. The time in the hospital and everything else was hell.

Between that, having had run-ins with a few meth heads that frequented a park near my company's offices, and going to some viking-themed events and dealing with legit nazis that showed up and got quite upset that we didn't want them there...yeah, this is why I'm generally afraid of people. Also why I strongly believe in firearms for self defense.


hedgetank t1_j9bzqc4 wrote

The Mayor : Callahan... I don't want any more trouble like you had last year in the Fillmore district. You understand? That's my policy.

Harry Callahan : Yeah, well, when an adult male is chasing a female with intent to commit rape, I shoot the bastard - that's my policy.

The Mayor : Intent? How'd you establish that?

Harry Callahan : When a naked man is chasing a woman through a dark alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross.


The Mayor : I think he's got a point.


hedgetank t1_j4nax2d wrote

America, where concern over "Democracy" is more about concern that the other team is going to win and take power than actually giving a flying fuck about democracy. Just remember, it's okay when we do it. For the greater good (the greater good).

/sorta sarcasm, sorta depressingly accurate take on the state of team-sports-Us-vs-Them bullshit.


hedgetank t1_j4nar4y wrote

I was assured by popular media that the CSIs, who do the actual work instead of the detectives or police, can enhance a grainy photo to crystal clarity and determine a license plate # and a finger print even though the video was shot in 320p with high compresion.