jisaacs1207 t1_iuggamk wrote

Oh, I see the problem-it’s linguistic. By, “voted against,” I mean they, “voted against the will of.”

By abstaining, they voted against the will of the United States, one of their main contributors.

I see you thought I meant they condemned Russia, which they didn’t do back in February. Israel chose to remain neutral, not condemn the invasion, and irked their western supporters.


jisaacs1207 t1_iugfqzy wrote

No, but the US is one of the nations that does. Israel’s defiance towards the US is my point. It seems like we are miscommunicating.

Israel voted against a country that props it up. Ukraine is requesting aid from a country it voted against. Both are perfectly fine, and a good thing. The purpose of voting, or abstaining, is an expression of national interest.

Humanitarian aid and defense should not be a tool of extortion to levy fealty-especially not in the case of attempted genocide.

The topic of genocide is and should be sensitive to the Jewish people, and we should be exceptionally forceful in preventing it at all costs. It really doesn’t matter who the victim is, there should be no greater advocate for the victims of attempted genocide. This is a “no expense spared,” type of situation.


jisaacs1207 t1_iugbh65 wrote

Would abstaining on the condemnation of Russia’s invasion during its initial stages, despite being urged to by their supporters, work for you? That is the most recent I can think of offhand.

Please don’t argue that abstaining is not the same as voting against. You asked when they voted against their supporting nations, and the choice to abstain worked directly against the condemnations.



jisaacs1207 t1_iug0nk3 wrote

Russia is attempting genocide, in several forms. It is castrating, raping, and murdering men, women, and children. It is stealing children, it is creating a famine… the list goes on. I mean, the reports are pretty public at this point as are videos.

I really hope you’re not arguing about the substance of all this evidence.


jisaacs1207 t1_iufzrlk wrote

Abstaining is voting against, by way of … well, how voting works in this situation. Furthermore, Israel consistently does exactly what it’s supporting nations asks it to not do regarding how the conflict with its neighbors is being handled.

Both Ukraine and Israel are nations that are being propped up, Israel having been for a very long time. The reason for this is that both nations have very unfriendly neighbors that would sooner absorb their territory and that dismisses their sovereignty.

The big difference here is that the Israel has much more experience, are more mature in their existence, have been propped up long enough to build a defense network, and understands the stakes. Jews know, intimately, the result of madmen annexing their neighbors with genocidal intent.

Aid with the intent of immediately ending what is, again, cultivating should not being contingent on anything. I would not deny my neighbor water if their house was on fire, even if their vote against my interest. Doing so is just not Jewish culture. Pragmatism alone would warn that fires spread.


jisaacs1207 t1_iufl1u2 wrote

Please check the comments a couple down-links included. Israel consistently defies nations that have been giving them billions in support and technology-both through abstaining or directly going against them.

This is fine. Israel is a sovereign nation and isn’t obliged to always follow demands, similar to Ukraine.


jisaacs1207 t1_iufjfnk wrote

Everyone can have an opinion on anything they want, some hold more weight than others based on their circumstances and backgrounds.

You misleading people to think you have more personal experience than you do, and trying to trigger empathy, then being upset about being called out isn’t uncommon behavior. It is the exact reason websites exist to quickly check people out, though.

It is also why post history exists on your profile.


jisaacs1207 t1_iufb9u5 wrote

If you want to be pedantic, fine. Otherwise:




Israel failed to the toe the line of their supporters.

There are other examples of similar, but that is a fairly recent time.

Then, of course there is stuff like this:


To answer your question directly, other than outwardly defying and not supporting their supporters, it looks like you’re right about the voting.

My point, excluding the voting, stands however.

Both Israel and Ukraine rely on foreign powers, Israel for much longer than Ukraine. Both countries express their own agency in politics as is their right.

We are in the brink of a world war and genocide is being committed under our noses. “But they voted against us so…” shouldn’t even be on the table.

Especially not for cultures that have been the victim of genocide in the past. There were many reasons given to not become directly involved in ending the holocaust, and I’m glad empathy and rationality won out.


jisaacs1207 t1_iuf7423 wrote

The best examples of openly defying the countries supporting them would be the ongoing strikes on Palestine.

I don’t want to involve that in the thread outside of saying that supporting nations are not enthused about everything going on, and are open about it.


At the end of the day, the Jewish people have seen this type of thing before and know the outcome very well.

Regardless of any votes, the aid isn’t for just Ukraine-that is narrow minded and very short-term-thinking. There is another unstable warmonger in Europe that is commuting genocide. We know how this goes!

We also know that Jews always end up on the menu eventually in these cases.


jisaacs1207 t1_iue1ino wrote

Imagine expecting a nation to do the right thing and push back against -as hard as they can- a country scaffolding the framework of WW3 (including horrendous human rights violations), and being allowed to keep your agency in politics.

One would think, as a Jew myself, that Israel would understand the consequences of not doing your utmost to shutdown this down.

They came for the Ukrainians, I didn’t do as much as I could as it’s not me.

They came for Europe, I didn’t do as much as I could as it’s not me.

They came for neighboring nations, I didn’t do as much as I could as it’s not me.

Now they are knocking on my goddamned door and there is no one that CAN do anything to help me.