No, by all means come up with a solution... But recognize the solution isn't worth dick when we refuse to cease the behavior causing the problem. I'm not presenting solutions because I don't have any. Just stop making shit worse and eat the billionaires. That's about as good as we can do at this point. Stuff labeled forever chemicals are because they're here forever in this snow globe we inhabit. It's just a really big globe, so humanity has a hard time grasping how bad things really are, none the less effectively process more than one crisis at a time. The best I can do is not have kids and win the lottery to have enough money to even have my voice heard. Our optimistic 'make a difference' campaigns haven't made a dent yet. These do: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7856827/

Let's talk numbers! How bout the numbers that suggest 70% of all wildlife has been eliminated since 1970. We definitely got this!! Just believe!!!

So, being more greedy then fearful, the billionaire class isn't going to change the system. There isn't any immediate gratification to be had in preservation. Everyone just wants to eat that tuna, bycatch be damned.

No, that's just living in denial. The world is quite literally dying in front of us. We've lost 70% of all wildlife since 1970. There's where your fruitful optimism has gotten us.

1. What is being done faster than the rate of destruction? You have to stop the destruction first and we know this isn't happening. We can't even talk people into having less kids.

2. Lol that some cultures can do things and others refuse. I think the reason is bare as to why global cooperation isn't going to happen just in your own point alone.

>Your strong claim here is suspect, given that I have proved false many of your other claims

Go do some basic Google research on forever chemicals and get back to me. I really think you just suffer from not knowing enough about how bad of a spot we are in.

Where, pray tell, is the hyperbole? Are you sure you're not just the one with their head in the sand??

I know that's what you think it looks like, but no, all of those things are happening right now, simultaneously, while people sit here whining about being more optimistic. Our optimism fuels the fire without even thinking about it, but anyone saying stop or slow down, look at the results, gets labeled a pessimist. The idea that you change people's minds by giving them hope for a better future doesn't work. It would have already if that were the case. It's not. Optimism is profitable and easy to feed the masses.

Lol that you think it's a gishgallop when those are the direct challenges to your sunshine and rainbows cancer cure happy time.

What are the countless counter examples to the current extinction event we are the direct cause of? You know we are linked to that chain and biodiversity loss on top of irreversibly polluting the world with plastics and forever chemicals? What is the example I'm missing that counters those factual things??

Even easier to lie to yourself and assume things are going to just work out. I just asked you to clarify your specific issue you brought up, but check my comment history in the thread for more specifics and we can go from there if you wanna abandon your cancer cure argument.

Lol, you assume this change is going to be so much betterment that it fixes the permanent damage we've done? Ok... And you call me irrational.

How much of the rainforest is destroyed per day? Wetlands? How many wells of oil still spewing how much in to the environment? How many forever chemicals spills have been remedied? The ramifications of our actions have only begun, and the actions haven't stopped. None the less the underdeveloped areas that don't even have a clue or care to tally pollution accurately.

With some of the greatest wealth disparity the world has ever seen, with more people enslaved than ever and we're a minute and a half from doomsday, sounds like you make a compelling argument there.

How fast are those going to make it to production? How cost prohibitive is it going to be? Is it going to cure the cancers caused by the ever increasing plastic/heavy metal/pfos content in our food chain? Like, yay, I hope there continues to be advances medically, as it's our only hope to ride out the hellscape, but our national lifespan continues to plummet downwards.

Where are the conservation efforts? There are so little it may as well be 0. As far as what optimism means, it kind of is denial:

op·ti·mism /ˈäptəˌmiz(ə)m/ noun 1. hopefulness and confidence about the future or the successful outcome of something.

PHILOSOPHY the doctrine, especially as set forth by Leibniz, that this world is the best of all possible worlds.

If we stopped all unnecessary consumption today and all efforts went to remediation of the damage already done, it still won't be enough to fix the world. We have finite resources and there isn't a global will to do anything differently. We've blown past every warning light and marker with thoughts and prayers.

Lol. It's easier to con a man than to convince him he's been conned. Sounds like you've latched on to the weird ideology as you want to trust Amazon. It takes being a weird fanatic to bring change, keep being an experienced consumer tho. That's dope.

I didn't say throw up your hands, I just said the world isn't going to get it's shit together to avoid the disastrous future that optimists tried to steer us from gently for the last 75 years. Everyone would need to cut most of their fossil fuel usage and plastics about 40 years ago. Since then it's been an exceleration with capitalists on the side dumping money in to 'optimism' for the masses so they can keep profiting. It's just like anytime someone tries to remind everyone we don't have free energy and carbon capture isn't going to save us in time, they get shouted down for being a buzzkill. Like the the global warming episode of always sunny- I don't want just one shot, I want seven! I don't wanna stop! I don't wanna slow down! The world is programmed by consumption and there are too many people. Look up the difference between a million seconds and a billion.

We're gonna keep burning, thx.

• the world

And lol that you think wasting time deciphering Amazon reviews makes you special.

You asked a question that doesn't really have an answer. Like a believer saying well you don't know what caused the big bang so despite the evidence I believe the (insert specific God claim here) did it!

Tens of millions in the face of billions and a century of pollution. Are you aware of us being the cause of the 6th mass extinction on earth currently?

>Sure! When I've failed at something and then done some preparation to raise my chances at success, I feel optimistic that it'll work when I try again!

We haven't even begun to try to change the system, and we have been told for a century that the world is going to choke to death if we keep doing what we're doing. The optimism of the world is just kicking the can down the road.

>So you just don't consult any reviews on the internet? That's pretty pessimistic.

Another demonstration of your bad faith argumentation. I said Amazon, cause reviews are bought and merchandise is fraudulent often. I don't buy anything of consequence from Amazon.

This is the best optimism has to offer? Deceit for the sake of feeling good for another short while until reality calls you back to the fact the world is dying?

Until someone shows a metric that is grounds for optimism, we've drained that well. No one has done shit with the hopeful messages of working for a brighter tomorrow! that have been pushed for decades. It's just hijacked to sell you more shit. We're not gonna even slow global warming and you think optimism still has merit or that people will change if you talk nicer to them? There are 8 billion people now, and to have to babystep any percentage of that to motivate them positively is an impossible task. We saw exactly how the world is going to react to collective action with COVID. There's not a single drop of hope for anything changing even if it's going to only mildly inconvenience the average person. Always look on the bright side, but it's hard to have a bright side with an ever dimming bulb.

If a stupid, pink, hairless monkey can figure it out, you can too!

It's optimists hijacked by their capitalist masters, yes. It's still the "wanting to believe without or against evidence" part that leaves optimists open for being taken advantage of. Like saying religion isn't bad, just extremists. The extremists wouldn't exist without the religion. Maybe they'd find something else to take to it's fullest extent, but it wouldn't be violent, morally questionable fairy tales.