tokmer t1_j239wdt wrote

I only see the memes about fucking up snails on reddit tbh but it seems like there are scientists trying to implant memories and shit right now.

Again though thats entirely from memes so huge grain of salt but yeah according to a determinist it would be possible to put memories into someone or implant desires or whatever


tokmer t1_j234nbw wrote

I have no idea if its absolutely true its my understanding that its the consensus of physicists but i am not a physicist and have not done enough research to say any of that for certain.

I would imagine though if qm made such a huge difference on the macro scale our traditional models wouldnt work right? Like we dont see random things happening on a macro level we see very predictable things.

Again im not an authority on this though and i have no citations very very good chance i have some fundamental misunderstanding here.

The parts governing brain though are knowable, we know certain drugs have effects on the brain, we know certain structures have certain purposes, just because we dont have 100% knowledge of it how it all works right now doesnt mean we cant know it right?


tokmer t1_j2324a7 wrote

But quantum mechanics doesnt effect things on a macro level like qm randomness is never going to make a change to the outcome of a coin flip or a pool shot.

But for the pool shot your mental state is also something thats predetermined, the chemicals that flow through your brain the structure of your brain itself all of that is something thats built for each individual moment of your life.


tokmer t1_j22zxbr wrote

Firstly qm is on a quantum level not a macro level, yes things can get weird when we look at things at an atomic level and we may not know how all that works but on macro levels we do know.

The coin flip is a great example actually though because when you flip a coin all the physics for that coin is already involved and calculable you can KNOW how that coin is going to land and how many flips its going to do and how far its going to move in any given direction and how many bounces its going to have.

The math is very complex but its there and no amount of quantum mechanics are going to change that.

This isnt a 50% chance this is 100% knowledge.

With the decisions a person makes are much the same albeit much more complex but complexity doesnt change the nature of something.


tokmer t1_j20oeoh wrote

If you right now appeared in front of a set of doors and had to choose one to go through, you would choose a certain door.

If we then wiped your memory and reset the door simulation you would choose to go through the same door every time you were forced to go through the simulation.

Nobody is trying to measure how much you like apples


tokmer t1_j1z81he wrote

Free will to most people would be you come to two doors you have a choice to use either door or none.

A determinist would say you do not you are destined to choose whatever you end up choosing based on your preceding life.

A compatibalist would say you are destined to choose what you choose but it feels free enough as you arent being coerced to choose.

This is my current understanding of the differences


tokmer t1_j1z61av wrote

Id have a hard time calling myself any kind of philosopher,

But i think we are making the same point determinists and people who believe in free will are talking about a different thing than what compatibalists are talking about when they say free will.

When a determinist is talking about free will they are talking about the ability to make independent choices.

When someone who believes in free will is talking about it they are talking about the same.

When a compatibalist talks about it they are talking about something different. (Just learned that today)

Why this has happened im not sure and i cant speak on why professionals are more inclined to compatibalism than others.


tokmer t1_j1yzoso wrote

Under compatibalist “free will” your choices are still fully determined, all that is saying is that you arent physically restricted from the choice youre making (like you arent in prison so you are free to choose to travel) this is a different concept than what determinists and free will believers are talking about.

Compatibalists believe in determinism but dont like the idea of fate so they redefine free will and call it a day


tokmer t1_j1ysvv2 wrote

Because you are a physical being you were destined to end up this way, based on how you were raised where you were raised what you experienced. (Your environment)

This is determinism, your environment was decided by very measurable phenomenon and you are a product of your environment.

If put in the exact same situation an infinite amount of times you would make the exact same devisions. (Exact same situation also means same memories and everything if you remember trying something 50 times you are in a different situation)